And the Impotence Came Crashing In

[Some Schmo]

I honestly have no idea what planet Exiled lives on, but wherever it is, it's got to have a Russian outpost.

[Moksha]

Trump doesn't want to lose his popularity with his base and could leverage said popularity into a television show or perhaps a new network.

I imagine Trump would love to be the new owner of the Miss Information Pageant. He would love the red carpet and going everywhere backstage. This would be perfect for the Fox Network.

[Dr Exiled]

Demand that they produce evidence, but let the process play out. If Biden truly wants to be president of all the United States, he should allow Trump the chance to prove his claims. The overzealous Trumpista will have conspiracy fuel if the process is cut short. Itll be over by mid December and the republicans will have calmed down by then if Trump cannot prove his case of election fraud. People get emotional during litigation but change once the verdict comes in.

Based on what Trump has been able to get away with over the last 4 years, and the way his base and enablers have defended even his worst actions and claims, I have very little confidence that his Republican base "will have calmed down by then if Trump cannot prove his case of election fraud." They have time and again shown very little, if any, respect for any evidence, no matter how incontrovertible or abundant, that conflicts with what they would rather believe or assert.

I guess we will see about Trump's people and if they can accept the results if their legal challenges don't work. I hope they act in a peaceful manner and just move on. I also hope the democrats act peacefully should Trump succeed in his challenges.

[Dr Exiled]

I honestly have no idea what planet Exiled lives on, but wherever it is, it's got to have a Russian outpost.

I must be Russian if I don't swallow all of the political hype. Yeah, sure. Both sides give in to emotional thinking. Even so, if you want to call me a Russian because I think this was a battle of the losers election and am not riled up like you are about Trump, so be it. I've been called worse.

[Some Schmo]

I imagine Trump would love to be the new owner of the Miss Information Pageant.

He's just as unqualified for this job as he is President. He doesn't know any information, and what he does know isn't beautiful or talented. Certainly none of it can support a sash or tiara.

[Res Ipsa]

Demand that they produce evidence, but let the process play out. If Biden truly wants to be president of all the United States, he should allow Trump the chance to prove his claims. The overzealous Trumpista will have conspiracy fuel if the process is cut short. Itll be over by mid December and the republicans will have calmed down by then if Trump cannot prove his case of election fraud. People get emotional during litigation but change once the verdict comes in.

Let which process play out? Completing the counting and recounting process as determined by state law? Absolutely. Allowing Republicans to file lawsuits and having judges rule on them? You bet. Staying silent in the face of a massive campaign to falsely portray our system of elections as rigged or fraudulent? Hell no.

You're right about litigation. But people calm down when the verdict comes in because they believe the process is fundamentally fair. Trump and his enablers are dishonestly and maliciously attacking the process. Defending the institutions necessary to support our democracy is a completely appropriate response.

[Dr Exiled]

Demand that they produce evidence, but let the process play out. If Biden truly wants to be president of all the United States, he should allow Trump the chance to prove his claims. The overzealous Trumpista will have conspiracy fuel if the process is cut short. Itll be over by mid December and the republicans will have calmed down by then if Trump cannot prove his case of election fraud. People get emotional during litigation but change once the verdict comes in.

Let which process play out? Completing the counting and recounting process as determined by state law? Absolutely. Allowing Republicans to file lawsuits and having judges rule on them? You bet. Staying silent in the face of a massive campaign to falsely portray our system of elections as rigged or fraudulent? Hell no.

You're right about litigation. But people calm down when the verdict comes in because they believe the process is fundamentally fair. Trump and his enablers are dishonestly and maliciously attacking the process. Defending the institutions necessary to support our democracy is a completely appropriate response.

I'm not saying to stay silent. I think one of the lessons to be learned from this election is that the answer to bad speech is more speech, not disallowing or deplatforming speech. In regards to the election, I think the republicans are saying that this election was fraudulent, that the mail-in ballot system allowed fraud, not that the concept of voting is somehow invalid. Are Trump and his enablers calling for an elimination of elections? I haven't heard anything other than that they feel cheated and that they believe Trump actually won and that the media prematurely declared Biden to have won. In a few weeks we will know if their claims have any merit.

[Res Ipsa]

Dr. Exiled, the basis of yesterday's lawsuit was that mail-in voting is inherently fraudulent and all mail-in ballots should be disregarded. They have neither provided nor even alleged evidence of actual fraud. They have not even provided evidence that mistakes were made that would change the results in Pennsylvania. They are, however, trying to convince a court to stop the process. And we all know what that means: if they can delay completion of the process long enough, the Republican legislature would then elect a slate of Trump electors. Voila! Election stolen.

If you aren't seeing the attack on the fundamentals of our election process, it's because you aren't looking.

And your straw man responses are getting pretty tiring. Nowhere have I suggested that the remedy is to take action to prevent the liars that are pushing this effort from speaking. They're speaking everywhere. I'm pushing back against your notion that we should all just sit back and trust norms and guardrails that have been obliterated over the last four years and passively watch attempts to steal an election.

The Mueller report pulled punches because of norms and customs within the DOJ. Another norm and custom: the Justice Department leaves the states alone to conduct their elections until each state certifies its final count. Barr ran straight through that guardrail (several days ago, in fact, without letting the public know he was doing it). This is the guy who made all sorts of claims about the Russian investigation, but couldn't back them up with any evidence after scouring the planet for a year.

What I don't understand is the glaring inconsistency of your positions. You pooh pooh any attempt to even investigate wrongdoing on the part of the Trump administration, yet are willing to chase down every evidence-free rabbit hole posited by Trumpers and pushed by the Kremlin. It looks to me like a combination of pathological "both-siderism" and a need to prove sweeping conspiracy theories while ignoring actual evidence staring you in the face. How do you reconcile this inconsistency?

[Dr Exiled]

Dr. Exiled, the basis of yesterday's lawsuit was that mail-in voting is inherently fraudulent and all mail-in ballots should be disregarded. They have neither provided nor even alleged evidence of actual fraud. They have not even provided evidence that mistakes were made that would change the results in Pennsylvania. They are, however, trying to convince a court to stop the process. And we all know what that means: if they can delay completion of the process long enough, the Republican legislature would then elect a slate of Trump electors. Voila! Election stolen.

If you aren't seeing the attack on the fundamentals of our election process, it's because you aren't looking.

And your straw man responses are getting pretty tiring. Nowhere have I suggested that the remedy is to take action to prevent the liars that are pushing this effort from speaking. They're speaking everywhere. I'm pushing back against your notion that we should all just sit back and trust norms and guardrails that have been obliterated over the last four years and passively watch attempts to steal an election.

The Mueller report pulled punches because of norms and customs within the DOJ. Another norm and custom: the Justice Department leaves the states alone to conduct their elections until each state certifies its final count. Barr ran straight through that guardrail (several days ago, in fact, without letting the public know he was doing it). This is the guy who made all sorts of claims about the Russian investigation, but couldn't back them up with any evidence after scouring the planet for a year.

What I don't understand is the glaring inconsistency of your positions. You pooh pooh any attempt to even investigate wrongdoing on the part of the Trump administration, yet are willing to chase down every evidence-free rabbit hole posited by Trumpers and pushed by the Kremlin. It looks to me like a combination of pathological "both-siderism" and a need to prove sweeping conspiracy theories while ignoring actual evidence staring you in the face. How do you reconcile this inconsistency?

I think you are falling for election time hyperbole. If there isn't any proof, then the lawsuit(s) will be dismissed. End of story. As for the conspiracy theory that Trump will try to get republican legislators to nullify the will of the people, assuming Biden remains in the lead, that is pretty far fetched. No one would stand for that and I would hope that these legislators wouldn't follow in this, either.

Want to bet that doesn't happen, say $50.00 to our board for maintenance costs?

And yes, I don't belong to the church of russiagate and don't think Trump is that much different from our other murderous presidents we have had in the past. If it were up to me, I would have brought charges against Trump for killing general solemani or for war crimes in Yemen. But, that would mean that we should indict all the other criminal presidents we have had who murder in the name of an empire that I don't really care for.

[Philo Sofee]

Trump doesn't want to lose his popularity with his base and could leverage said popularity into a television show or perhaps a new network.

I imagine Trump would love to be the new owner of the Miss Information Pageant. He would love the red carpet and going everywhere backstage. This would be perfect for the Fox Network.

Melania and Ivanka could do some pole dancing on the side to spice it up even........Make it an entire family show. Jared and Eric could do a stand up comedy routine.......