Vaccines and Therapeutics 2.0 & 3.0 Merge

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Chap
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Re: Vaccines and Therapeutics 2.0 & 3.0 Merge

Post by Chap »

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Sat Nov 06, 2021 3:52 am
I got my flu shot today.

OMGMYSHOULDERISSOREDOESANYONEKNOWWHATSINTHISVACCINE?!?!

- Doc
Think of it like this. You have a special corps of security cells in your body, trained to locate and destroy enemy virus penetrations. When you take a vaccine, that sets the programme for an intensive live action retraining exercise for those security cells, in which all the alarms go off, and your whole body mobilises to give those cells what they need to do their job.

At the end of the exercise everybody is tired, and a lot of resources have been used. But now the security cells stretched out on their bunks can say to one another "Well, if any of those m-fs turn up for real, they ain't gonna know what hit them".

If you don't take the vaccine, and the enemy viruses attack for real, your security forces are going to have to try to retrain for the new threat while actually engaged in a full-scale battle for which they do not yet have the appropriate weapons or tactics. Probably not a good idea, and you will end up feeling a lot worse. Or maybe end up just not feeling anything anymore ...
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
Mayan Elephant:
Not only have I denounced the Big Lie, I have denounced the Big lie big lie.
Chap
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Re: Vaccines and Therapeutics 2.0 & 3.0 Merge

Post by Chap »

Covid-19 killed my brother and sister a week apart. It didn’t have to happen.


What a tragedy. All those people who have devoted so much airtime and prestige to turning people away from vaccination, or causing them to delay vaccination 'till they have done more research' need to think what they have helped to happen. But you know, they are probably quite proud of what they have done to 'help people to think for themselves'.

These people were at risk of dying from lack of oxygen in their bodies. Doctors and nurses they had no reason to mistrust told them that. Yet they pulled the mask off and asked to leave the hospital. Who gave them the idea that this was a wise thing to do under the circumstances? I'd really like to know!
When the call came that my brother and sister were both in the hospital, I said, “Covid.” It was a statement, not a question. I knew. Despite our begging and cajoling, they had both refused the vaccines.

I immediately began the grieving process, skipping right over denial and bargaining. There was no denying the odds, and bargaining required faith. Anger was my overwhelming emotion. As much as I love them, I was angry at the suffering they were causing themselves, the anguish they were causing their family and many friends and the trauma they were inflicting on the health-care personnel overwhelmed with cases including theirs.

The next few days were a roller coaster, vacillating between paralyzing depression and panic attacks. My heart raced; I could not breathe. I did not know emotions could cause such physical pain: My head throbbed, my heart ached, my stomach burned, my limbs tingled. I knew the rituals of death, but I would not be allowed to sit beside them or sing to them as they departed.
The hospitals could only make time to give updates to one person, so we awaited reports that we would then pass along to others. My cellphone became my lifeline just as the oxygen masks were theirs. I carried my phone constantly in my hand so I could hear and viscerally feel all the texts and phone calls flooding in. I stopped using my electric toothbrush because two minutes was too long to lay down the phone.

I stopped reading newspapers because I could not abide any more bad news. I didn’t know what day it was. I Googled everything I could about covid-19 to learn the things the doctors and nurses, in their kindness, had left unsaid. I bookmarked funeral homes, newspaper obituary pages and probate checklists in my “favorites.” When offered food, I was surprised I was capable of hunger.

Juggling communications in three time zones meant days began early, sometimes at 3 a.m. I longed for evening, when there would be no more calls or texts, yet dreaded the void when there was nothing I could do other than wallow in self-pity and anguish.

We waited for the inevitable. We prayed, hoping for a miracle, knowing there would not be one.
My brother repeatedly ripped off his mask and begged to go home. The doctor suggested sedation and eventually intubation. Within a week of that first call, my brother died.

My brother was a single parent who had raised his daughter from the age of 2. He was a gregarious rugby player, his manner full of grace and blarney. He was a friend to everyone, and his greeting always warmed the soul of others.

We began preparations for his final rest while moving immediately to the impending death of my sister. I was numb. I repeated information on the phone so many times throughout the day, I forgot what I had said to whom, and my voice was hoarse.

I fretted that I had forgotten an important detail or left someone off the call list. I called people by the wrong name. I said “I love you” to people I barely know, and I meant it, because they loved my siblings.

I woke one morning, and for a brief instant, I did not remember my brother was gone or that my sister would surely follow him. Then I remembered and wondered why the sun dared shine.
My sister repeatedly pulled off her mask and begged to go home. The doctor suggested hospice. She died a week after her brother.

My sister is my hero. She was a military veteran who served a year as an Army nurse in Vietnam. She was an outstanding nurse and later an entrepreneur. Her husband had died years before, and she had no children, but her open house and heart had given her many friends.

My siblings no longer need masks. They have gone home, but not to the home they sought from their hospital beds. My brother and sister lived full lives, but I know they could have been with us longer had they been vaccinated. My heart is doubly broken. We have lost my brother’s hearty laugh, my sister’s dry wit and their loving arms.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
Mayan Elephant:
Not only have I denounced the Big Lie, I have denounced the Big lie big lie.
Cultellus

Re: Vaccines and Therapeutics 2.0 & 3.0 Merge

Post by Cultellus »

Chap wrote:
Sun Nov 07, 2021 5:46 pm
Covid-19 killed my brother and sister a week apart. It didn’t have to happen.


What a tragedy. All those people who have devoted so much airtime and prestige to turning people away from vaccination, or causing them to delay vaccination 'till they have done more research' need to think what they have helped to happen. But you know, they are probably quite proud of what they have done to 'help people to think for themselves'.

These people were at risk of dying from lack of oxygen in their bodies. Doctors and nurses they had no reason to mistrust told them that. Yet they pulled the mask off and asked to leave the hospital. Who gave them the idea that this was a wise thing to do under the circumstances? I'd really like to know!
When the call came that my brother and sister were both in the hospital, I said, “Covid.” It was a statement, not a question. I knew. Despite our begging and cajoling, they had both refused the vaccines.

I immediately began the grieving process, skipping right over denial and bargaining. There was no denying the odds, and bargaining required faith. Anger was my overwhelming emotion. As much as I love them, I was angry at the suffering they were causing themselves, the anguish they were causing their family and many friends and the trauma they were inflicting on the health-care personnel overwhelmed with cases including theirs.

The next few days were a roller coaster, vacillating between paralyzing depression and panic attacks. My heart raced; I could not breathe. I did not know emotions could cause such physical pain: My head throbbed, my heart ached, my stomach burned, my limbs tingled. I knew the rituals of death, but I would not be allowed to sit beside them or sing to them as they departed.
The hospitals could only make time to give updates to one person, so we awaited reports that we would then pass along to others. My cellphone became my lifeline just as the oxygen masks were theirs. I carried my phone constantly in my hand so I could hear and viscerally feel all the texts and phone calls flooding in. I stopped using my electric toothbrush because two minutes was too long to lay down the phone.

I stopped reading newspapers because I could not abide any more bad news. I didn’t know what day it was. I Googled everything I could about covid-19 to learn the things the doctors and nurses, in their kindness, had left unsaid. I bookmarked funeral homes, newspaper obituary pages and probate checklists in my “favorites.” When offered food, I was surprised I was capable of hunger.

Juggling communications in three time zones meant days began early, sometimes at 3 a.m. I longed for evening, when there would be no more calls or texts, yet dreaded the void when there was nothing I could do other than wallow in self-pity and anguish.

We waited for the inevitable. We prayed, hoping for a miracle, knowing there would not be one.
My brother repeatedly ripped off his mask and begged to go home. The doctor suggested sedation and eventually intubation. Within a week of that first call, my brother died.

My brother was a single parent who had raised his daughter from the age of 2. He was a gregarious rugby player, his manner full of grace and blarney. He was a friend to everyone, and his greeting always warmed the soul of others.

We began preparations for his final rest while moving immediately to the impending death of my sister. I was numb. I repeated information on the phone so many times throughout the day, I forgot what I had said to whom, and my voice was hoarse.

I fretted that I had forgotten an important detail or left someone off the call list. I called people by the wrong name. I said “I love you” to people I barely know, and I meant it, because they loved my siblings.

I woke one morning, and for a brief instant, I did not remember my brother was gone or that my sister would surely follow him. Then I remembered and wondered why the sun dared shine.
My sister repeatedly pulled off her mask and begged to go home. The doctor suggested hospice. She died a week after her brother.

My sister is my hero. She was a military veteran who served a year as an Army nurse in Vietnam. She was an outstanding nurse and later an entrepreneur. Her husband had died years before, and she had no children, but her open house and heart had given her many friends.

My siblings no longer need masks. They have gone home, but not to the home they sought from their hospital beds. My brother and sister lived full lives, but I know they could have been with us longer had they been vaccinated. My heart is doubly broken. We have lost my brother’s hearty laugh, my sister’s dry wit and their loving arms.
Paywall.
Dates?
Ages?
Why did they refuse the vaccine?
Chap
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Re: Vaccines and Therapeutics 2.0 & 3.0 Merge

Post by Chap »

Chap wrote:
Sat Nov 06, 2021 9:46 am
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Sat Nov 06, 2021 3:52 am
I got my flu shot today.

OMGMYSHOULDERISSOREDOESANYONEKNOWWHATSINTHISVACCINE?!?!

- Doc
Think of it like this. You have a special corps of security cells in your body, trained to locate and destroy enemy virus penetrations. When you take a vaccine, that sets the programme for an intensive live action retraining exercise for those security cells, in which all the alarms go off, and your whole body mobilises to give those cells what they need to do their job.

At the end of the exercise everybody is tired, and a lot of resources have been used. But now the security cells stretched out on their bunks can say to one another "Well, if any of those m-fs turn up for real, they ain't gonna know what hit them".

If you don't take the vaccine, and the enemy viruses attack for real, your security forces are going to have to try to retrain for the new threat while actually engaged in a full-scale battle for which they do not yet have the appropriate weapons or tactics. Probably not a good idea, and you will end up feeling a lot worse. Or maybe end up just not feeling anything anymore ...
I hope you are feeling more comfortable today, and pleased with your decision to get vaccinated? I've had flu in the past, and I wouldn't wish it on anyone, even if they come through OK.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
Mayan Elephant:
Not only have I denounced the Big Lie, I have denounced the Big lie big lie.
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Jersey Girl
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Re: Vaccines and Therapeutics 2.0 & 3.0 Merge

Post by Jersey Girl »

:shock: I just got the most deranged idea that is vaccine related, so of course I'm going to post it here.

What if...the number of fundamentalist Christian anti-vaxxers who are opposed to the vaccines because...don't judge me...they think that the number of reported Covid deaths...I'm not responsible for what I am saying here, just remember that...is the Rapture? :shock:
We only get stronger when we are lifting something that is heavier than what we are used to. ~ KF

Slava Ukraini!
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Re: Vaccines and Therapeutics 2.0 & 3.0 Merge

Post by Gunnar »

Jersey Girl wrote:
Wed Nov 17, 2021 10:50 pm
:shock: I just got the most deranged idea that is vaccine related, so of course I'm going to post it here.

What if...the number of fundamentalist Christian anti-vaxxers who are opposed to the vaccines because...don't judge me...they think that the number of reported Covid deaths...I'm not responsible for what I am saying here, just remember that...is the Rapture? :shock:
It would not surprise me greatly to find out that some of them actually think of it that way.
No precept or claim is more suspect or more likely to be false than one that can only be supported by invoking the claim of Divine authority for it--no matter who or what claims such authority.
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Jersey Girl
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Re: Vaccines and Therapeutics 2.0 & 3.0 Merge

Post by Jersey Girl »

Gunnar wrote:
Thu Nov 18, 2021 5:11 am
Jersey Girl wrote:
Wed Nov 17, 2021 10:50 pm
:shock: I just got the most deranged idea that is vaccine related, so of course I'm going to post it here.

What if...the number of fundamentalist Christian anti-vaxxers who are opposed to the vaccines because...don't judge me...they think that the number of reported Covid deaths...I'm not responsible for what I am saying here, just remember that...is the Rapture? :shock:
It would not surprise me greatly to find out that some of them actually think of it that way.
I just realize how poorly written that comment was. :oops: I don't think that idea is so far fetched. Not the idea that this is the Rapture. The idea that some folks might think that it is.
We only get stronger when we are lifting something that is heavier than what we are used to. ~ KF

Slava Ukraini!
Chap
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Re: Vaccines and Therapeutics 2.0 & 3.0 Merge

Post by Chap »

And there are still people who are trying hard to persuade others not to get vaccinated. And sadly, people who allow themselves to be persuaded to 'wait a little longer'. As this doctor points out, that is why intensive care facilities in hospitals are overloaded, and people are enduring long waits for the arrival of an ambulance that could save their lives.

ICU is full of the unvaccinated – my patience with them is wearing thin

Most of the resources we are devoting to Covid in hospital are being spent on people who have not had their jab


Anonymous

The writer is an NHS respiratory consultant who works across a number of hospitals

In hospital, Covid-19 has largely become a disease of the unvaccinated. The man in his 20s who had always watched what he ate, worked out in the gym, was too healthy to ever catch Covid badly. The 48-year-old who never got round to making the appointment.

The person in their 50s whose friend had side-effects. The woman who wanted to wait for more evidence. The young pregnant lady worried about the effect on her baby.

The 60-year-old, brought to hospital with oxygen saturations of 70% by the ambulance that he initially called for his partner, who had died by the time it arrived; both believed that the drug companies bribed the government to get the vaccine approved.

All severely ill with Covid. All unvaccinated and previously healthy. All completely avoidable.

Of course, there are people who have their vaccinations but still get sick. These people may be elderly or frail, or have underlying health problems. Those with illnesses affecting the immune system, particularly patients who have had chemotherapy for blood cancers, are especially vulnerable. Some unlucky healthy people will also end up on our general wards with Covid after being vaccinated, usually needing a modest amount of oxygen for a few days.

But the story is different on our intensive care unit. Here, the patient population consists of a few vulnerable people with severe underlying health problems and a majority of fit, healthy, younger people unvaccinated by choice. Watching the mix of patients coming in with Covid, it feels to me like hardly anybody has been vaccinated nowadays; of course, this is because the people that have been vaccinated are getting on with their lives at home. If everyone got vaccinated, hospitals would be under much less pressure; this is beyond debate. Your wait for your clinic appointment/operation/diagnostic test/A&E department would be shorter. Your ambulance would arrive sooner. Reports of the pressure on the NHS are not exaggerated, I promise you.

Furthermore, we have recently rolled out a new medication for patients without antibodies against Covid. It costs about £2,000 a treatment and is subject to a rigorous and time-consuming approval process for every case we treat. Guess which patients don’t have these antibodies (spoiler: it’s not the ones who have been vaccinated).

Most of the resources that we are devoting to Covid in hospital are now being spent on the unvaccinated.

Yes, vaccinations are unpleasant. They cause side-effects. They hurt. You may even still catch Covid afterwards. I have many colleagues who have felt awful after vaccination and a few who had to take a day or two off work. However, I have not heard of any who have been hospitalised with Covid afterwards or who have had severe side-effects. The approvals process was incredibly stringent and we now have an unbelievable amount of real-world data that these vaccines work. The science that has been applied here is nothing short of awe-inspiring to me. However, I realise that none of these rational arguments would change the mind of someone who is resolved against having it, although I suppose it may push someone who remains undecided.

As a respiratory doctor, I have spent my whole career treating people whose lung diseases have been caused by smoking, including long after they knew the risks. I have spent countless hours with people who blame themselves for ruining their health; I have thought a lot about our personal responsibility for our health and to what degree we should be held accountable for our choices. I personally – unlike some of my colleagues – have never felt any ambivalence about treating smokers without judgment in exactly the same way as people with diseases that are not seen as self-inflicted.

Enshrined in the way we protect patients’ autonomy is the recognition that others may reasonably make decisions we may see as irrational or wrong. We are all products of our upbringing, education and opportunities, and I have been hugely fortunate that in my case these have led me to make decisions I value. Who is to say I wouldn’t have made different choices in someone else’s shoes.

Translating this to the choice not to take the vaccine, however, I find my patience wearing thin. I think this is for a number of reasons. Even if you are not worried about your own risk from Covid, you cannot know the risk of the people into whose faces you may cough; there is a dangerous and selfish element to this that I find hard to stomach.

Some of my frustration is directed upwards, at the flagrant misinformation flourishing in certain places and the utterly woeful example that our leaders continue to set. I have never heard a reason not to take the vaccine that I have agreed with. Most of all, however, I am now beaten back, exhausted, worn down by the continuous stream of people that we battle to treat when they have consciously passed up the opportunity to save themselves. It does make me angry.

Despite this, I find the idea of NHS and care staff being forced to be vaccinated very difficult. I know that it is the right outcome, but I dislike the means of bringing it about. It is incredible to me that there is so much anxiety and falsehood around that this could possibly be necessary after the year we have all witnessed. How strong is the hold that this information has on people that it outweighs rational thought?

Maybe it’s just that others have not seen what I have recently, or do not believe it, but even now we have nurses on our Covid ward who have not been vaccinated. I just hope that we don’t end up losing yet more staff.

Fundamentally though, for me, it comes down to this. I can’t think of a single case offhand of a person who was previously fit and healthy who has ended up needing intensive care after being fully vaccinated. It may not stop you from catching Covid. But it can save your life when you do.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
Mayan Elephant:
Not only have I denounced the Big Lie, I have denounced the Big lie big lie.
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Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: Vaccines and Therapeutics 2.0 & 3.0 Merge

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

Yahoo:
As of Tuesday, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention had recorded 386,233 deaths involving COVID-19 in 2021, compared with 385,343 in 2020. The final number for this year will be higher, not only because there is more than a month left but because it takes time for local agencies to report deaths to the CDC.

COVID-19 has also accounted for a higher percentage of U.S. deaths this year than it did last year: about 13% compared with 11%.
Well. It’s only, like, .1% of the population every year, so … no worries, mate.

- Doc
Hugh Nibley claimed he bumped into Adolf Hitler, Albert Einstein, Winston Churchill, Gertrude Stein, and the Grand Duke Vladimir Romanoff. Dishonesty is baked into Mormonism.
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Re: Vaccines and Therapeutics 2.0 & 3.0 Merge

Post by Res Ipsa »

From today’s New York Times: only one of the three multiclonal antibody treatments current approved for use in the US works on Omicron. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/21/heal ... icron.html
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