Vaccines and Therapeutics 2.0 & 3.0 Merge

The Off-Topic forum for anything non-LDS related, such as sports or politics. Rated PG through PG-13.
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canpakes
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Re: Vaccines and therapeutics

Post by canpakes »

Atlanticmike wrote:
Mon Aug 02, 2021 5:30 pm
canpakes wrote:
Mon Aug 02, 2021 4:05 pm
Hey, Mike - what’s your level of risk to yourself and others that you’ve used to either accept or reject vaccination?
Risk is throughout your life canpakes. Are you scared of the "regular flu", influenza, it also kills? What should we do about … (etc., etc.)
Of course risk is everywhere. But in the midst of risk, you’ll make a decision how to engage it, informed by your experiences or knowledge. Likely you use a seatbelt, as example, even though you’ll call yourself a good driver… because even if you’re a perfect driver, some other idiot may blow through a light and take you and your truck right out.

Just like someone could pass along a virus to you that could take you right out. Because, probabilities. You’re running a calculation in your head on all of these situations. Just like Icarus, or just like Cultellus (even if he’s too shy to talk about it).

You probably had your children receive the polio vaccine, even though their chances of getting polio are a whole lot less than becoming a COVID carrier.

By the way, my family is vaccinated because we take care of three elderly people.
You apparently weighed the risk of vaccination versus harm that COVID could cause to elderly folks that you are exposed to, and acted accordingly.

But I do not believe we should make the vaccine mandatory.
I’m not so sure that a mandatory COVID vaccine is the way to go yet, either. But I fully support businesses and hospitals retaining control over being allowed to accept or reject non-vaccinated folks on to their property, or to require it as a condition of employment, if interacting with or caring for other people.
Themis
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Re: Vaccines and therapeutics

Post by Themis »

Cultellus wrote:
Mon Aug 02, 2021 5:39 pm
Thanks Themis.
There are multiple groups working in healthcare that have voiced objections to mandatory vaccination. They have many reasons for doing so. One such group included nurses who regret getting the vaccination but would continue to do their jobs without the vaccination or choose a different vaccination. For example, one nurse ran a fever for almost 11 weeks after getting vaccinated. That is painful and long. She would have preferred to get the virus than the vaccination.
A number of people including many liberals appose mandatory vaccines. It is a matter of a balance between individual rights and the rights of the group. There are also people who have had a bad reaction to the vaccine but recognize it is better than risking the disease. A few have even died, but the risk of that is soo much smaller than the risk of dying from the virus.
Even if I did have that data, It would not be meaningful. I do not have the resources to review every bit of data for every demographic.
Everyone has the resources to find out. This is just an admission you are BSing numbers.
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Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: Vaccines and therapeutics

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

Tfw people take the vaccine:

Image

How many more must die for this scamdemic?

- Doc
Hugh Nibley claimed he bumped into Adolf Hitler, Albert Einstein, Winston Churchill, Gertrude Stein, and the Grand Duke Vladimir Romanoff. Dishonesty is baked into Mormonism.
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Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: Vaccines and therapeutics

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

Lollapalooza 2021:

Image

I’m very curious to see what infection rates will be in 2-6 weeks. I think there are a couple more variants gaining steam, but I read this bit from a John Hopkins new release:

“The virus seems to have some limitations in its evolution – the advantageous mutations are drawn from a relatively limited menu – so there is some hope that we might not see variants that fully escape our vaccines.”

Right now alt -Right types are pushing the idea that you’re more susceptible to covid variants if you get vaccinated, so we have that.

- Doc
Hugh Nibley claimed he bumped into Adolf Hitler, Albert Einstein, Winston Churchill, Gertrude Stein, and the Grand Duke Vladimir Romanoff. Dishonesty is baked into Mormonism.
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Res Ipsa
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Re: Vaccines and therapeutics

Post by Res Ipsa »

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Tue Aug 03, 2021 2:43 pm
Lollapalooza 2021:

Image

I’m very curious to see what infection rates will be in 2-6 weeks. I think there are a couple more variants gaining steam, but I read this bit from a John Hopkins new release:

“The virus seems to have some limitations in its evolution – the advantageous mutations are drawn from a relatively limited menu – so there is some hope that we might not see variants that fully escape our vaccines.”

Right now alt -Right types are pushing the idea that you’re more susceptible to covid variants if you get vaccinated, so we have that.

- Doc
CDC: If you're vaccinated, it's okay not to wear a mask, especially outdoors.

Americans: Hold my beer, cuz I'm crammed in so tightly with 40 gazillion other people, I can't hold it myself.

If they can trace these folks, they'll be able to track another super spreader event just like Provincetown.

No common sense.
he/him
When I go to sea, don’t fear for me. Fear for the storm.

Jessica Best, Fear for the Storm. From The Strange Case of the Starship Iris.
Hawkeye
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Re: Vaccines and therapeutics

Post by Hawkeye »

Everyone must be masked and schools must be closed whether vaccinated or not until we have zero positive cases. Anything less is unacceptable. After all over 300 kids in a country of 400 million people quite possibly died from Covid in the last two years. We also need to make sure that teachers are paid whether they are willing to teach in person or not.
The best part about this is waiting four years to see how all the crazy apocalyptic predictions made by the fear mongering idiots in Right Wing media turned out to be painfully wrong...Gasoline would hit $10/gallon. Hyperinflation would ensue.
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Jersey Girl
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Re: Vaccines and therapeutics

Post by Jersey Girl »

Jersey Girl wrote:
Mon Aug 02, 2021 1:50 am
Reported number of new vaccinations today. I think folks are either running scared of the Delta variant or getting in compliance with employer demands.

661,884
Reported number of new vaccinations nationwide today.

539,824
We only get stronger when we are lifting something that is heavier than what we are used to. ~ KF

Slava Ukraini!
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Atlanticmike
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Re: Vaccines and therapeutics

Post by Atlanticmike »

Jersey Girl wrote:
Wed Aug 04, 2021 2:18 am
Jersey Girl wrote:
Mon Aug 02, 2021 1:50 am
Reported number of new vaccinations today. I think folks are either running scared of the Delta variant or getting in compliance with employer demands.

661,884
Reported number of new vaccinations nationwide today.

539,824
Please still don't go to Florida dumb ass
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Res Ipsa
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Re: Vaccines and therapeutics

Post by Res Ipsa »

Jersey Girl wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:55 pm
Homework assignment. ;-)

Outbreak of SARS-CoV-2 Infections, Including COVID-19 Vaccine Breakthrough Infections, Associated with Large Public Gatherings — Barnstable County, Massachusetts, July 2021
Early Release / July 30, 2021 / 70


https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/ ... mm7031e2_w
Well, I finally got a chance to sit down and read this paper. When reading a scientific paper, I’ve developed the habit of reading the limitations section first. That helps avoid drawing unwarranted conclusions as I read the paper. There authors explicitly state that conclusions about vaccine efficacy cannot be drawn from the study. And they tell us why they can’t.

There most important reason they can’t is because they don’t know the relevant denominators. They don’t know the total number of people who attended the festival events. And they don’t know the percentage of people who attended that had been vaccinated. The general rates for the town, county, or state aren’t helpful because this specific festival was marketed to gay men. Based on the experience of the gay community with HIV, there are reasons to think that the vaccination rate for gay men would be higher than in the general population. In addition, I don’t think there is a body of literature that tells us whether there are differences in how COVID - 19 acts in people who have suppressed immune systems or who are HIV positive and being treated with drug regimens.

The facts section of the study makes it clear that the festival was not a matter of people who are hanging out on a beach. There were lots of indoor venues packed with crowds, as well as very crowded outdoor venues.

Like any other single study, it is not a definitive statement of anything. It is simply an accretion of new information on a novel virus. (We really should use that phrase “novel coronavirus” from time to time and remind ourselves how long it can take science to develop a robust set of data that allows us to draw firm conclusions.

The good news is that the rate of hospitalization and death among the vaccinated who tested positive was low.

Personally, I’m going to go back to wearing a mask indoors when I’m not at home. I’ve resumed hosting a bi-weekly game event at my favorite game pub, which can result in 10-12 people at a table for up to 5 hours. I like my players, and wearing a mask during our gaming sessions is worth the minuscule personal cost of it reduces the risk for my players even a little. Besides, we came close to overrunning our hospitals at the beginning, and I have no desire to see my country go through what Missouri is going through right now. Slowing down the rate of transmission helps avoid hospital overruns, and I’m happy to do what I can to help slow the rate of transmission.

I think the combination of the paper plus the spikes in New cases gives the CDC plenty of justification to rethink and revise its Mask recommendations. It’s what I would expect from an organization guided by the scientific method and evidence.
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Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: Vaccines and therapeutics

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

Update from Texas - a frontline worker:
We ran out of oxygen at my ER yesterday. We had to put ambulances in the parking lot and run tubing into the ER. I have no Remdesivir and no plasma as we are a freestanding ER. I’m out of Toradol. I’m rationing steroids.

I have a patient here: 21 years old and on BiPAP. We’re concerned about how much oxygen we can use up. Because we can’t give him all the O2 he needs we are struggling to get an O2 saturation over 88%. No one in the state of Texas has beds for him.

Louisiana, Arkansas and Oklahoma are full. We are trying. I don’t have Vapotherm. Family is incredulous that there are no beds. We had one yesterday but overnight three nurses walked out on the shift they were on; so we lost the bed.

There are no favors left to call in. No one has anything. No one is special enough or sick enough to qualify for a bed. It hurts. It’s painful. I am not a good doctor today. I can not care for my patient the way he deserves.
Here in Utah, our primary children’s hospital is prepping for a surge, and since it serves like four states they run the risk of running out of beds. Let’s hope the anti-vax and anti-mask types don’t get any of their kids killed in September.

- Doc
Hugh Nibley claimed he bumped into Adolf Hitler, Albert Einstein, Winston Churchill, Gertrude Stein, and the Grand Duke Vladimir Romanoff. Dishonesty is baked into Mormonism.
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