Atlanticmike wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 7:46 pm
Res Ipsa wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 7:34 pm
What does that have to do with your silly distinction between "shots" and "vaccines?"
I'm fully vaccinated against measles, polio and small pox and I've never needed a booster, why is that? But in the last year I've been stabbed three times for covid, why is that? Because there's no covid vaccine, ding dong! At best the shot is an prophylatic immune therapy.
LOL. The fact that you don't understand what vaccines do and how they work doesn't mean they aren't vaccines.
Your wife took your kids in for their vaccines, didn't she. Here is the current schedule for vaccination through age 19:
Hepatitis B: three doses.
Rotavirus: two doses.
Diptheria, Tetanus, and Pertussis: five doses. (And every ten years after that. More frequently if you get a puncture wound).
Haemopholis influenze type B: Three or four doses
Pneumococcal conjugate: Four doses
Inactivated Polio Virus: four doses
Measels, Mumps and Rubella: Two doses
Varicella: Two doses
Hepatitis A: Two doses
Meningococcal: two doses
And after that schedule, from 19 years on:
Tetanus, diphtheria, pertussis: before each pregnancy, after puncture wound, or every 10 years max.
Measels, Mumps and Rubella 1 or 2 doses (depending on year of birth)
Varicella: 2 doses (if born in 1980 or later)
Zoster Recombinant: 2 doses (I just finished this one)
Human Papilloma Virus (2 or 3 doses depending on age of initial vaccination or condition)
Pneumococcal Polysaccaride: 1 dose
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/schedules/index.html
Most vaccines are not "one and done." They require multiple doses.
And how about that polio vaccination?
The inactivated virus polio vaccine is 90% effective with two doses. 99-100% with three doses. But, the duration of immunity is unknown. But, because polio circulation is restricted to a couple areas of the world, for you, it's effectively 100% for life.
And measles?
One dose of MMR vaccine is 93% effective against measles, 78% effective against mumps, and 97% effective against rubella.
Two doses of MMR vaccine are 97% effective against measles and 88% effective against mumps.
So, not 100% effective against measles. We've come close to eradicating measles in the U.S., except that sometimes someone who has traveled abroad infects a population of anti-vaxxers. That prevents us from obtaining actual herd immunity. Mumps has an even lower rate of effectiveness, but it's still a vaccine.
For Pertussis, the longevity of immunity is shorter, but the vaccinations are intended to get infants and young children past the point where the disease is most dangerous.
Compared to the vaccine the United States used in the past (known as DTP), DTaP does not protect against whooping cough for as long. In the 1990s, the United States switched from whole cell to acellular whooping cough vaccines for babies and children. Acellular whooping cough vaccines have fewer side effects, but do not appear to protect for as long.
In general, DTaP is effective for 8 or 9 in 10 children who get it. Among children who get all 5 shots of DTaP on schedule, effectiveness is very high. The vaccine protects nearly all children (98 in 100) within the year following the last shot. About 7 in 10 kids are fully protected 5 years after getting their last shot of DTaP. The other 3 in 10 kids are partially protected and are less likely to have serious disease if they do get whooping cough.
In the first year after getting the vaccine, Tdap protects about 7 in 10 people. There is a decrease in effectiveness in each following year. The vaccine fully protects about 3 or 4 in 10 people 4 years after getting Tdap.
A CDC evaluation found Tdap vaccination during the third trimester of pregnancy prevents more than 3 in 4 cases of whooping cough in babies younger than 2 months old. For babies who do get whooping cough, 9 in 10 are protected from infections serious enough to need treatment in a hospital if their mother received Tdap during pregnancy.
Kids get a 5 shot schedule, which results in 98% effectiveness for a year after the last shot. 70% effectiveness five years after the last shot, with the other 30% being protected against serious disease. (Hmm, gradually waning immunity but protection from severe disease. That sounds familiar...)
You can find all the information on vaccine efficacy right here:
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/vaccines-diseases.html
So, the number of doses is irrelevant to whether something is a vaccine. Likewise, the rate at which immunity wanes is relevant to whether something is a vaccine. You're drawing a distinction based on ignorance and unrealistic expectations of what vaccines are and how they work.
The current vaccine schedule is based on years -- sometimes decades -- of study. COVID-19 is a new disease. That the first vaccines developed for the disease worked at all is pretty amazing. (Well, they didn't all work. Some didn't make it through phase 3 trials.) The virus does what it does. Science and medicine have to adapt to what the virus does. So, nobody should be surprised that vaccines developed in a year for a brand new disease aren't 100% effective or that we don't know the optimal dosing schedule. Why would we? To some extent, we try what we think will work. Then we test it. And if it is safe and effective, we use it. And, especially given the variants this virus can produce, we have to be able and willing to adjust our behavior to keep the transmission levels low enough for our healthcare system to treat the disease.
Denying that an actual vaccine is a vaccine because politics is flat out crazy. My two doses of Moderna reduced my risk of being infected with Delta by over 90%. My booster reduced my chance of getting Omicron by 30-40% (can't recall off the top of my head), but reduced my chances of a severe case by something like 90%. That's damned good for a virus that didn't exist a little over two years ago.
"Fully vaccinated" is likely to change depending on our experience with the virus. Failing to change with changes in experience is what religions do -- not scientists or doctors. New virus. New conditions. Changing conditions. For my age group today, two doses plus a booster of mRNA vaccine is "fully vaccinated." But I don't expect that to stay static. As we learn more and refined or new vaccines come on line, I expect to see changes. Someone is working on a multi-valent vaccine that would make variants irrelevant. But, we've been trying to do that with flu for years without success. Maybe it will work, maybe it won't.
All I am reasonably sure of is that recommendations will change as the disease changes and as our tools to combat it change. Following the best advice grounded in the science is my best shot. Denial would be my worst.
