Vaccines and Therapeutics 2.0 & 3.0 Merge

[Res Ipsa]

I can't even imagine how horrific that would be.

It used to be sad before vaccines were widely available. Now it is sad and frustrating. Not sure who to be frustrated at most. The people I know who lack critical thinking skills and believe a lot of BS, or the people who manipulated them into the BS.

For me, it’s the latter.

[Gunnar]

It used to be sad before vaccines were widely available. Now it is sad and frustrating. Not sure who to be frustrated at most. The people I know who lack critical thinking skills and believe a lot of BS, or the people who manipulated them into the BS.

For me, it’s the latter.

I agree. Trump and his MAGA hat and White Nationalist supporters who willfully manipulated the poorest and least well-informed of the American populace into accepting the BS they excreted deserve the greater part of the blame for the current, sorry state of affairs.

[canpakes]

ETA: here's a link for the above.

Wife hospitalized for covid gets home to find husband dead from the same virus: ‘It was like walking into a horror movie’
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2 ... d-husband/

Good, Lord. They met on a Christian dating site, found love, and now one of them is dead.

From the article:

“I did what I thought was best for me,” Lisa told The Post. …
She added: “We wanted to make sure [getting vaccinated] was safe.”

I honestly want to understand this sentiment better, but I’ve never encountered anyone who can quite explain what “safe” means, in this context. Do they believe that the vaccine will kill them? Cripple them? Destroy some function of their body?

And if they do, do they believe that the chances of the vaccine doing any of these things is greater than catching covid itself or suffering harmful effects or death from it when they do?

Where is their information - and their fear - being sourced from?

[Chap]

I honestly want to understand this sentiment better, but I’ve never encountered anyone who can quite explain what “safe” means, in this context. Do they believe that the vaccine will kill them? Cripple them? Destroy some function of their body?

And if they do, do they believe that the chances of the vaccine doing any of these things is greater than catching covid itself or suffering harmful effects or death from it when they do?

Yup. This is not, however, about the rational estimation of risks on the basis of the evaluation of data. It's about a vague but (in many cases) fatal sense of fear connected with vaccines: antivaxxers work hard to create anxieties about vaccination based on 'unknowns' and 'unanswered questions' and 'who is behind this?', basically because there are no hard data on which a rational decision for a normal person to refuse vaccination can be made.

[Chap]

Yup. This is not, however, about the rational estimation of risks on the basis of the evaluation of data. It's about a vague but (in many cases) fatal sense of fear connected with vaccines: antivaxxers work hard to create anxieties about vaccination based on 'unknowns' and 'unanswered questions' and 'who is behind this?', basically because there are no hard data on which a rational decision for a normal person to refuse vaccination can be made.

Incredibly, vaxxers work hard to create anxieties about vaccination based on 'knowns' and 'answered questions' and 'who is not behind this?', basically because there is only hard data on which a rational decision for a normal person to accept vaccination can be made.

And the point of your incredibly laugh-filled literary trope is ... what exactly? That there are just as good reasons for refusing to be vaccinated as for getting vaccinated?

[canpakes]

Yup. This is not, however, about the rational estimation of risks on the basis of the evaluation of data. It's about a vague but (in many cases) fatal sense of fear connected with vaccines: antivaxxers work hard to create anxieties about vaccination based on 'unknowns' and 'unanswered questions' and 'who is behind this?', basically because there are no hard data on which a rational decision for a normal person to refuse vaccination can be made.

Incredibly, vaxxers work hard to create anxieties about vaccination based on 'knowns' and 'answered questions' and 'who is not behind this?', basically because there is only hard data on which a rational decision for a normal person to accept vaccination can be made.

I’m not aware of any folks who are OK with and have received the COVID vaccine who believe that it will make one magnetic, or affect their fertility, which are two reasons that I’m aware of that some folks eschew the vaccine.

Perhaps someone who has refused vaccination will speak to their safety concerns and where they are sourced, and the risks involved, versus infection.

[canpakes]

Incredibly, vaxxers work hard to create anxieties about vaccination based on 'knowns' and 'answered questions' and 'who is not behind this?', basically because there is only hard data on which a rational decision for a normal person to accept vaccination can be made.

And the point of your incredibly laugh-filled literary trope is ... what exactly? That there are just as good reasons for refusing to be vaccinated as for getting vaccinated?

And this is exactly what I’m getting at. What are the specific FUD (fears, uncertainties, doubts), from what source, and how is that risk assessed internally by anti-vaxxers such that they refuse vaccination?

I want to believe that anti-vaxxers are giving this their most serious thought, but it doesn’t seem apparent.

[canpakes]

And the point of your incredibly laugh-filled literary trope is ... what exactly? That there are just as good reasons for refusing to be vaccinated as for getting vaccinated?

I do not find it filled with laughter. I just think that all the antivaxxers are like that and all the vaxxers are not like that and so we agree, buddy. We agree. They are like you say and we are not like that. We totally agree. High Five!

There you go. You don’t seem to know, either. It’s a mystery.

[Res Ipsa]

I wouldn’t call everyone who refuses the COVID vaccine an anti-vaxxer. The leaders of the anti-vax movement have assembled a collection of pseudo-science that appears reasonable on the surface. One has to spend time and effort to investigate the information to discover just how deceptive it is.

That movement has coalesced with the antigovernment right over this particular vaccine. The vaccines, like everything having to do with COVID, has become highly politicized. This groups resistance is to this specific vaccine, not vaccines in general.

As a result, politically opposed are a receptive audience for the anti-vaxxer pseudoscience. It’s a grab bag of FUD, so people’s specific reasons vary.

[Res Ipsa]

There you go. You don’t seem to know, either. It’s a mystery.

Really. I know. The antivaxxers are ALL like that, they work hard to create anxieties about vaccination based on 'unknowns' and 'unanswered questions' and 'who is behind this?', basically because there are no hard data on which a rational decision for a normal person to refuse vaccination can be made. We are not. All vaxxers work hard to create anxieties about vaccination based on 'knowns' and 'answered questions' and 'who is not behind this?', basically because there is only hard data on which a rational decision for a normal person to accept vaccination can be made. I am so happy that we all agree that all those people are like that and all of us people are not like them at all. We are way way way better than those people.

I am glad to agree with you too, little buddy. Feels good to agree.

ETA: High Five.

Are you assuming that we should expect to find hard data that supports not getting vaccinated?