Way Off-Topic: Question for RPGamers

The Off-Topic forum for anything non-LDS related, such as sports or politics. Rated PG through PG-13.
honorentheos
God
Posts: 3762
Joined: Mon Nov 23, 2020 2:15 am

Re: Way Off-Topic: Question for RPGamers

Post by honorentheos »

Xenophon wrote:
Wed Jan 11, 2023 11:32 am
Thanks for taking that look honor. Yeah after looking around at other physical copies I'm pleased with where I ended up.
honorentheos wrote:
Wed Jan 11, 2023 5:06 am
A general DM tip I picked up from someone that i've found very helpful is to avoid being the one who decides to initiate combat.
Good advice. I suspect that the sequence as laid out in the book was more for pairing the scene up with the show but you're right I probably should have taken further creative liberties here.
That seems right to me, too. The encounter may also have been exciting to a group that plays tough video games, or a group that wanted the feel of the first season terror the Demogorgon elicited from the people in the show. Any group will get frustrated if they keep rolling bad or the monster they are fighting avoids damage from their spells. That's a tricky problem no matter the scenario setup.
As to the trogs, I won't lie I did a bit of leading through their early NPC encounters to get the party predisposed to not engaging them directly. Generically they were approaching everything with a pacifist/negotiators bent so I wasn't too worried about them but I can definitely see your point.
It sounded like you did great with this, and the PCs were creative rather than going murder hobo just to have a fight. I think the adventure itself could do more to help DMs without your insight. Action economy is a big deal, so even though the Trogs only do 1d4+2 damage on a hit, their attacking three times per turn each with a +4 makes it likely they'll hit once each turn against average level 3 PCs with moderate AC. That's 4 average damage each which isn't a big deal. But eight of them would do over 30 points of damage on average which, if played tough by an aggressive DM, could take a level 3 PC down in two turns while their HP is enough the Trogs would have a reasonable chance of surviving long enough to do that damage. Toss in a crit or high damage rolls and it has the chance to get ugly at no fault of the players. I don't think it's wrong to throw an encounter like that at a party. But I'd be inclined to play it up to convey the Trogs were confident their numbers gave them an advantage. And if no Trogs had dropped out before a PC went down, I'd likely have the two closest Trogs start trying to drag the unconscious PC away, each wanting to take the meal for themselves and getting quarrelsome with each other over it until someone attacked one of them. It would add a new dynamic for the party to think about but remove six attack rolls from the combat to offset the reduced action economy on the PC side. Hopefully they'd view it as urgent and a trade off rather than a favor to help them out.
The labyrinth layout was interesting and I could see recycling it. As newbies they never picked up on the random nature of it but i suspect some more experienced players might meta it out so I can't promise the near mutiny that occurred but it could be fun regardless. Just swap up the random encounters to better reflect the campaign and your specific party and you've likely got a strong mechanic.
For sure. The mechanic is pretty cool and an appropriate encounter table would give it plenty of value with minimal reskinning needed.
User avatar
Bret Ripley
2nd Counselor
Posts: 404
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 1:55 am

Re: Way Off-Topic: Question for RPGamers

Post by Bret Ripley »

honorentheos wrote:
Tue Jan 10, 2023 6:10 pm
Hey, Xeno

Thanks for sharing your experience! Sounds like a fun time overall with some learning experience in the mix.

It's be interesting to get a sense of what parts of the D&D game they enjoyed most? It may inform the types of collaborative game the group would enjoy as well as potentially offer avenues for tailoring future D&D/RPG sessions to their tastes. My first thought was the Sherlock Holmes Consulting Detective series.

Sherlock Holmes Consulting Detective - The Thames Murders & Other Cases Board Game | Mystery Game for Teens and Adults | Ages 14+ | 1-8 Players | Average Playtime 90 Min. | Made by Space Cowboys https://a.co/d/gBrCYPV

For a group of smart puzzle solvers who want to work together it could be fun. I'm sure Res would have a ton of ideas, too.
I'm late to the party, but wanted to add my "thanks" to Xeno for sharing. Our gaming group has finally scheduled a date (Feb. 11) and I intend to shamelessly steal take inspiration from these stories.

The mention of a Sherlock Holmes board game rang a bell in my mental belfry, so I braved an expedition to the attic to find my dusty old collection of games. It's mostly RPG-related stuff (AD&D, D&D 2e, Paranoia, Boot Hill, Top Secret) but I also have a few other old gems: Hero Quest(!), Source of the Nile, and ... sure enough ... a couple of Holmesian titles:

Image

I don't know how this edition Consulting Detective stacks up against the version honorentheos linked to -- my guess is that my old edition has fewer cases to play through.

(by the way -- if anyone thinks they might get some enjoyment out of either of these I could easily be persuaded to part with them. I haven't opened the boxes in decades and for all I know they've been converted to mouse condos -- I can check on condition if anyone is interested and willing to cover postage.)
honorentheos
God
Posts: 3762
Joined: Mon Nov 23, 2020 2:15 am

Re: Way Off-Topic: Question for RPGamers

Post by honorentheos »

Bret Ripley wrote:
Wed Feb 01, 2023 5:09 am
honorentheos wrote:
Tue Jan 10, 2023 6:10 pm
Hey, Xeno

Thanks for sharing your experience! Sounds like a fun time overall with some learning experience in the mix.

It's be interesting to get a sense of what parts of the D&D game they enjoyed most? It may inform the types of collaborative game the group would enjoy as well as potentially offer avenues for tailoring future D&D/RPG sessions to their tastes. My first thought was the Sherlock Holmes Consulting Detective series.

Sherlock Holmes Consulting Detective - The Thames Murders & Other Cases Board Game | Mystery Game for Teens and Adults | Ages 14+ | 1-8 Players | Average Playtime 90 Min. | Made by Space Cowboys https://a.co/d/gBrCYPV

For a group of smart puzzle solvers who want to work together it could be fun. I'm sure Res would have a ton of ideas, too.
I'm late to the party, but wanted to add my "thanks" to Xeno for sharing. Our gaming group has finally scheduled a date (Feb. 11) and I intend to shamelessly steal take inspiration from these stories.
That's great news! Excited to hear how it goes. We have work session four tonight with a seventh player joining. Could be the last session of the adventure depending on if they attempt to investigate the probe or just head back to confront the Grinning Sinners.
The mention of a Sherlock Holmes board game rang a bell in my mental belfry, so I braved an expedition to the attic to find my dusty old collection of games. It's mostly RPG-related stuff (AD&D, D&D 2e, Paranoia, Boot Hill, Top Secret) but I also have a few other old gems: Hero Quest(!), Source of the Nile, and ... sure enough ... a couple of Holmesian titles:

Image

I don't know how this edition Consulting Detective stacks up against the version honorentheos linked to -- my guess is that my old edition has fewer cases to play through.

(by the way -- if anyone thinks they might get some enjoyment out of either of these I could easily be persuaded to part with them. I haven't opened the boxes in decades and for all I know they've been converted to mouse condos -- I can check on condition if anyone is interested and willing to cover postage.)
That's very cool. As a thought, there are organized game swaps/selling events here in the Phoenix area at various game stores. A couple of classics would get a lot of attention and probably earn some nostalgia, friends, and a few bucks. I'd suggest checking around. I'd be interested in them but honestly I am needing a game closet spring cleaning myself...:)
honorentheos
God
Posts: 3762
Joined: Mon Nov 23, 2020 2:15 am

Re: Way Off-Topic: Question for RPGamers

Post by honorentheos »

honorentheos wrote:
Wed Feb 01, 2023 1:32 pm
We have work session four tonight with a seventh player joining. Could be the last session of the adventure depending on if they attempt to investigate the probe or just head back to confront the Grinning Sinners.
We had our fourth session with two regular players canceling last minute and the new person getting held up by work and messaging me multiple times about the delays hoping to still make it before giving up an hour after we had started. So we played with four. And it turned out to be a very different dynamic. Of the four players who were able to play, I'd describe one as having a cynical personality which makes for fun flavor in games but in a smaller group proved to be a hurdle for me as the DM. The two players who had to cancel included the experienced player who went home sick halfway through the workday. The other is fairly young, first job out of college, and had forgotten she had a family event that night when we scheduled. It happens.

So where this group normally was prone to just diving into situations that made for fun moments, two of the remaining players were more analytical and cynical, which meant most of the challenges put in front of them weren't met with the usual mischief but instead a sort of slightly serious, somewhere dismissive attempt to beat it. It's been a while since I've felt that challenged as a DM. And of course they ended up in the mind-freak that was what happened if they decided to investigate the crater. The party debated every decision to death. I had to inject motivating actions multiple times, not to remove their agency to but force them to make choices. Here's the summary which admittedly is long. I made the recap long so the folks who missed it could at least generally follow along. But alot also happened. It was a busy one. Anyway.

The light of the full moon lit the yard around the farmhouse, allowing the party to see as Kingsley, the imposter son, ran down the path through the corn to the music of the magical player piano without incident. Seeing him appear to make it safely away, the party then debated if you should follow him and go back to Duskwich? or spend more time exploring the farmhouse? 

With a "poof", a now familiar figure dressed all in black and wearing a bird mask appeared behind Xerxia and, placing a hand on her shoulder as well as Null, whispered that he apologized for the suddenness but she was yet again needed elsewhere...and would need additional help. Both Xerxia and Null then disappeared in a smoky swirl which the rest of the party apparently moved on from immediately. 

Richard Fox, the imposter husband who had brought the Mallus Deus to the farmhouse and appeared to have kicked off the horrific events afflicting Dustwich, was in favor of leaving. And, as the party debated further, he found an opportunity when no one was paying close attention to bolt off down the path himself. At this point, you decided to follow after him with caution, suspecting the horrors in the cornfield weren't ended but merely abated when the music played; similar to how music in the village appeared to abate the ill-effects that afflicted Duskwich.

Stepping out onto the path back to the village, the party saw the form of Richard Fox far down the path...and that of Kingsley much nearer shouting out for Fox to help him. You approached Kingsley where you discovered the unfortunate young man had become trapped in the magical field with the insect swarms. Distraught, he begged you to help him, reluctantly admitting he had attempted to investigate the bugs without realizing the risk to his own person until it was too late. Now trapped, he demonstrated that he could step closer to the center of the blighted area that you could see between 300-400 feet away. But every move closer became a new level of imprisonment, somewhat like an object caught in the gravity of a planet. The party sought to investigate the magic to see if there was any way to free him, including shooting at it with crossbow bolts. When this did not seem to offer insight or improve the situation there was some debate if the party should just leave him and head to the village as well since it looked like there was nothing to be done to free him. The party discussed possibly reading from the Mallus Deus to see what would happen, though no one spoke infernal without Null, and Annallee Bina recalled that reading from a dark grimoire was known to be an easy way to become corrupted by the sentient powers of the book that are often much stronger than the reader of the book was prepared to handle. 

You decided it may be better to have Kingsley investigate the crater as he was able to move in that direction and it seemed possible one of the crossbow bolts might have been thrown out when it hit inside the crater though this wasn't clear. After assuring him you wouldn't abandon him, he crept closer to the crater and, after some hesitation, stepped into only to be lost to you sight in a blinding flash of light. Brennan observed in the flash that Kingsley appeared to drop down into the crater but otherwise it appeared he was gone.

Again debating whether to leave now and go to the village or try to help him, the party became split in your opinions. Annallee then attempted to open the Mallus Deus facing the magical field which had two noticeable effects. First, the insects inside of the field moved immediately away, forming a clear area that you confirmed still contained the field. It appeared most likely the insects reacted to the book without regard to the field, seeking to get away from it. The second effect was subtle, but some of you noticed slight sparks of electricity at the field facing the book, like static from flannel pieces being pulled apart in the dark. Moving the book around and then closer to the field resulted in an increase of observed electrical energy that then began to be a two-directional communication of some kind as electricity seemed to travel both from the center of the crater to the book and back again. The party again began to debate if this was bad and they should leave, or possibly go and investigate the crater yourselves? As you debated, you saw first a hand and the face of Kingsley rise above the crater...and begin to walk towards you away from the crater! He called out to you, saying that he needed to take the book to "them", but had no recollection of who "they" were or even having had a conversation with anyone. He only knew that if he took the book to "them" then things would go back to normal. After Arctica threatened him he stopped, but continued to press the urgency of needing to bring the book back. As the party debated how to respond, Kingsley lunged towards Annalee who was standing immediately at the edge of the field. A crossbow bolt found home in Kingsley's throat and dropped him to the ground, but not before Arctica moved to protect Annalee by stepping between them...and inadvertently forgetting that the magical field was there. 

With Kingsley dead but Arctica trapped, the party decided to throw Arctica the book but unfortunately a sketchy knot and throw resulted in Brennen stepping on the rope as he threw it to her, leaving the book untied but within reach of Arctica who was able to get the book but then again was unable to move away from the center of the blight. Taking one for the team, she then proceeded to walk to the center of the blighted area where she discovered a strange orb that appeared to slightly hover above the ground that was active with pulsing purple lightning around its surface. She proceeded into the crater and the rest of the party lost sight of her as a bright burst of light flashed up to the sky out of its center. At this point, Arctica experienced a conversation only she is aware of but following which the magical field around the orb surged out and overwhelmed the rest of the party...

...who then found yourselves being left in front of an open cave mouth by an elderly man, dressed as a town guard, named Bentley who reminded you that you were there to find out what happened to Mane like you had all discussed. As you appeared confused, he reminded you all that you had showed up the night before back in Duskwich having found nothing unusual out in the direction of blight but that you were more than willing to look into what had happened to Mane and his group who you had passed on their way to investigate missing sheep in the foothills south of the village. With Bentley leaving you there, you decided to follow through on this and began to move into the caverns where Brennen promptly set off a falling axe trap when he walked up and tried a door without first investigating it. Annallee then looked over the door and discovered a spring loaded needle hidden in the door and set it off in a controlled way. The party entered a natural cavern where you heard a sound nearby which gave you pause. Ellery then proceeded to play music in an attempt to show you weren't hostile which worked. Five scally kobolds and a strange dog-sized lizard creature popped up warily watching you but not attacking immediately as they appeared they had been ready to do. After a few embarrassing conversations on the part of both the party and the kobolds who had been unaware Annallee could speak draconian, the kobolds invited you to join them for their feast and headed towards a similar looking door to the one you had came in through...right down to the axe trap and needle trap. They warned you to avoid those traps and disappeared into the room behind the door. But when you opened it and followed them in you could no longer see them, instead seeing an exact replica of the room you had just left. Ellery expressed concern something was wrong as it appeared to be the same room all over again at which point you all heard voices speaking distantly yet almost directly into your minds where one said something about bringing you out as you appeared to know now something was wrong. You felt yourselves pass out as if going under anesthesia yet again...

...and came to finding yourselves seated in a white room with flickering fluorescent lights, clothed in what appeared to be plain linen cloths without belts, ties or buttons, and only plain slippers on your feet. In front of you sat a gentleman, balding with a goatee and holding a "clip board", who informed you that break time was over. He then turned to address "Joshua" while looking at Brennen, asking him to tell the group about the progress he had made on his project. He proceeded to address each member of the party by strange names such as Stacy and Patricia, and bemoaned that the group appeared to have regressed from what he called their progress as a few of you told him you had just been in a room with kobolds before this. As he asked questions of the group, he stated that this matter of their believing they had been "fighting kobolds" as some kind of fantasy had happened before with the group and the only way forward was to begin with their telling him what happened. The exchange of information was fraught for both sides as he asked questions of the group that were answered at times as if the party had indeed been recently working on their journal while others shared details about the kobold encounter. Details from your experience appeared to interest him greatly, and he told the two orderlys in the room with you to follow him as they left and locked the swinging institutional doors behind them...reminding you all that you had been in the Shadowfell Institute of the Mentally Ill in Albuquerque, New Mexico for over a year since an unfortunately accident had occurred. 

You proceeded to escape the room as Brennen went gorilla mode on a chair and busted it up into pieces, one of which Arctica was able to use to work the lock open on the doors. You all then found yourselves in a flickering hallway with about a half-dozen other people dressed like you...and a room with gear in it some of which looked just like your gear. You quickly dressed back in your own gear (Annallee finding a flintlock pistol to add to hers at the time), and you attempted to leave. But as you did so, the other "patients" began to repeat over and over that you couldn't leave and grabbed at you. As one restrained Ellery, the woman was shot and collapsed to the ground where her body seemed to melt and then congel back...and the bodies two others nearby her then began to merge into her as well as their voices merged.

You all noped out of this and headed forward through the doors where you encountered the man from the other room...but now no longer looking human. Instead where you had seen stringy balding hair and a goatee were slithering tentacles. Members of the group recognized having heard of such things called mind flayers or illithids before, and realized they were known for having psychic powers and the ability to mess with people's minds. This one appeared to have a slightly drooping side on his right where the tentacles on that side did not move and his arm appeared to be slightly stiff. The room itself included a large orrery or strange mechanical model of some form of world-system which matched with orbs on pedestals are evenly spaced locations around the room. When looked into, the orbs appeared to show scenes from various times and places, one of which you recognized as your own near Duskwich. The sides of the room were made of transparent glass-like material that rose as high as 90 feet above the center of the room. Outside the window, a scene of mind-bending and disorienting formations could be perceived but not comprehended. The flat white-grey sky formed the backdrop for countless purple and green lightning strikes showing a pocked and marred colorless landscape. Everywhere one looked out, your view included a spire with no apparent summit. Its contorted slopes stretch into the toxic heavens, and its form occupies the periphery of viewers’ attention no matter which direction you look as if it had it's own horizon independent of the ground around it.
The "doctor" ranted something about needing the book for the God-Brain it served and focused on Arctica who it declared must have brought it with her. Arctica reached into her backpack and discovered where she expected to find a bottom it instead kept going. She failed to find the book so she decided to jump into the pack to look for it. Once inside, she found herself in a small pocket dimension inside of her pack...and all of her normal belongings pressed up against the walls of the pack as far as possible from the Mallus Deus which apparently had found a podium on which it rested. Arctica grabbed it and climbed back out of her pack where she showed the book to the Doctor but declared she would not give it to him. Howling in rage, he called in the creatures from the other room which turned out to be strange gibbering compositions of mouths and eyes muttering in a fleshy oozy formless body. 

You engage in fighting the doctor as well as the two other creatures, finding the creatures to be slow but hard hitting. This lead the majority of you to focus on keeping away from them as you took on the doctor who at first seemed unconcerned. He seemed to have psychic powers he used to lift and drop Arctica before grabbing Annallee and moving her into an electric beam created by the orbs when they moved into marching alignments. As it became apparently you were proving to be too much for him, he made on last attempt to get away by blasting Brennen, Arctica, and Annallee with a powerful wave of psychic energy before attempting to escape. Arctica and Annallee were knocked unconscious by the blast but Brennen and Ellery were able to strike the doctor down with an attack of opportunity before he could flee. The fall of the doctor coincided with a bright flash of light...

...and the two conscious members of the party came to in a dark, narrow space on your backs. You became aware of the sounds of muffled voices along with a scrapping sound that was followed by the sound of rocky soil landing on wood. Both Ellery and Brennen realized they were in coffins being buried alive and proceeded to fight to get out. Brennen was able to bust through the lid of his coffin as Ellery kicked violently at hers giving rise to shouts of, "They've come back as undead! Just like the others!" as the sounds of panicked villagers retreating replaced that of shoveling. Brennen was able to free Ellery and the two of you realized there were two other holes next to you. You used a shovel left behind by the villagers and pried open the lids of the coffins covering Annalee and Arctica. Ellery was able to use her remaining healing spells to revive them. The realization descended on the four members of the party that they were back outside Duskwich, the evening sky above and the flickering of kitchen fires and torches coming from the village where distant shouts could still be heard.
honorentheos
God
Posts: 3762
Joined: Mon Nov 23, 2020 2:15 am

Re: Way Off-Topic: Question for RPGamers

Post by honorentheos »

Places where I inserted inciting events because the party was paralyzed by indecision included Richard Fox deciding to make a run for it. I foreshadowed it by telling the players the PCs noticed he seemed to be inching closer to the path, and those with successful insight checks realized he looked like he was eyeing the escape route. Didn't force them to follow but they just couldn't make a decision on whether to go or stay and look around more. His leaving tipped the balance and one of the PCs just went after him so the others followed.

The next was having Kingsley arise from the crater and go after the book. They couldn't agree on if they should go into the magic field and investigate or head back, and it was going around and around in loops. It was pretty clear there wasn't an off switch anywhere near it, and one of them didn't want to investigate it because they felt it would mean the game wouldn't be able to end that night. Which was true but not the best reason for making in-game decisions, in my opinion. The attack was meant to get them to decide to either head to the village or send the book into the crater or something...so it was kind of fortunate for me that the player for Arctica said specifically that Arctica moved between Annalee and Kingsley after we'd just spent 15 minutes of Annallee holding the book right up to the edge of the field. I gave her a chance at a wisdom save which she failed pretty badly and then the player realized what she had done. It was awesome, in my opinion. Good game moment. But those who seemed impatient and who were trying to beat the game weren't as excited by it.

Another was in the kobold lair where their attempts to avoid combat were interesting and rewarded but then weren't going anywhere. So the kobolds made it go deeper into the caverns. Then the doctor basically controlled the action in the clinic. They didn't ask him questions, didn't attempt to do anything, just looked at me like it was f'd up and I needed to tell them what to do. One of them began to try to reverse psychology the doctor which might have been clever but I couldn't see how he would do anything but call their bluff given he knew what was actually happening and they didn't.

It was rough enough that at the end of the session I pulled back the curtain on the story and my DMing to explain multiple aspects of why I made the decisions I did, what was done as a reward for being clever, what was used to push them to act but not steal their agency, and I also told them about the play test of the scenario with my more experienced group. It surprised me to have the group say they had fun because that wasn't the clear impression I was getting from them. They seemed over it almost from the start and I felt I was digging into my bag of DM experience to find tricks to keep them onboard. So who knows.

I discussed with my wife later that I think I misjudged a critical aspect of the scenario. That being, for newer players everything about D&D is fantastical so everything is a kind of expectation subversion. The mind-freak episode with the sudden planar shift was a hit with my regular group who had been playing with me, and I suspect it was because the subversion was novel and made the game more fun than it did for the folks whose experience was limited to the three sessions before this one. Lesson learned.

It did provide some insight into the players that I didn't have before that I'm mulling over to find what I can do that might better appeal to them now I know there are a few who are passively going along with the crazier exploits that both of the players contribute to who couldn't make it. So. There's that.
User avatar
Physics Guy
God
Posts: 1557
Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2020 7:40 am
Location: on the battlefield of life

Re: Way Off-Topic: Question for RPGamers

Post by Physics Guy »

Running an RPG is hard. You're trying to be some sort of hybrid of novelist, director, and facilitator. Sometimes you end up being a lawyer, trying to convince a hostile court that what you said happened made sense. Getting your world to mesh with the players' stories is really the main job, and it's likely the hardest one.

I vaguely remember two things that I think I tried late in my long-ago GMing career, both of which I should probably have tried sooner.

One was to adopt a policy about what kinds of player actions the karma of my world was going to be set up to favour, and tell the players about my policy. I think I just said something to the effect that the game was trying to realise fantasy adventure, and so strategies that were just going to make the game boring were going to have the game world tilted against them—I'd be looking for reasons for them to fail. Any attempt to do something cool and exciting, in contrast, was going to have a kind of tailwind behind it, possibly even to the extent of having the GM try to think up excuses for it to work. GM rulings were going to do more to determine what happened than rules and dice rolls, not least because the GM would decide what rolls had to be made, and in this world I was going to ensure that fortune favoured the bold. (I did warn them that foolhardiness would not count as boldness.)

I think that telling the players this helped, because it wasn't necessarily obvious that the game would work that way. Some players expect an RPG to be more like a family board game, where you just move your counter from square to square and react to what happens; others expect a wargame where you have to guard against a relentless opponent. I should have explained more clearly, sooner, that the winning meta-strategy for this game was going to be to try doing interesting things.

Another thing I kicked myself for not doing sooner was to create concrete uses for the otherwise problematic D&D mental abilities, by letting a player whose character had, for example, a high Wisdom score get occasional secret notes from me, explicitly telling them things that their super-wise character had noticed or recognised even if they weren't obvious to anyone playing the game. This generally worked as a pretty strong nudge from the GM, but it actually seemed to do less violence to the Fourth Wall than supplying hints via non-player characters, because it still left it up to the player who got the note to decide what to do with it.

These games let people pretend to be strong and agile, more than they are in real life and even more than anyone could be—if their characters have the right ability scores. There are ways to let people play at being clever, too, I found, once I got over thinking that my job was to set the challenge for the players to meet without help.
I was a teenager before it was cool.
honorentheos
God
Posts: 3762
Joined: Mon Nov 23, 2020 2:15 am

Re: Way Off-Topic: Question for RPGamers

Post by honorentheos »

Those are both valuable insights, Physics Guy. I think the need to lean into character abilities in ways that fulfill individual player expectations for the fantasy their PC represents is greater in current TTRPGs than I recall from my youth. Our table back whenever was pretty content to smash character sheets up against challenges with expectations that PCs would die pretty regularly. Now there's more investment in the PC from what I've seen.

I recently added a level 0 funnel to my regular campaign where the players each controlled four npcs that felt very much like AD&D level 1 characters who are in a fishing village caught in the crossfire between sahuagin and hobgoblins attacking from opposing sides. The hobgoblins are defending the village as they already were collecting tribute from the villagers while the sahuagin are attempting to capture victims for in game reasons. The players level 11 PCs are attempting to get to the village they can see burning but are far enough away they can't just magic their way in. The funnel characters are trying to survive until they get there. It has been a fun way to both give the players some attachment to the villagers while also making them consider alternatives to heroics. They got a handful killed by picking a fight with a couple of sahuagin who just killed them and left. Another few were killed when one became trapped in a quicksand spell that, when they went to rescue him, went south because another one of the group shot an arrow at the sahuagin shaman attracting his attention to their activity. So the shaman wiped them out with a wave that rose up out of the lake and slammed down on them. It's been fun to see them start to adapt to what I think is a more old school style of play. We will be wrapping that up tonight as the PCs should arrive in the village. Will there be any villagers left? We will see...
User avatar
Bret Ripley
2nd Counselor
Posts: 404
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 1:55 am

Re: Way Off-Topic: Question for RPGamers

Post by Bret Ripley »

We got together for our one-off D&D 5e adventure last night. At the table were 2 players with absolutely no prior experience with RPGs, 1 player with considerable 5e experience (although I learned during play that this was her first 'in person' RPG experience), 1 player with CRPG experience and exposure to 5e through videos (Dimension 20, Critical Role), and my wife and I who haven't played RPGs in a few decades. I haven't been a screen-monkey since D&D 2e and THAC0 were all the rage.

Because this was designed as a one-off (and given my lack of experience), I knew I couldn't be too ambitious in scope and settled on a fairly simple rescue mission as the centerpiece. I also wanted to give them the sense of the world their characters inhabited, so rather than have them materialize outside their objective they started out in town (in a tavern, thankyouverymuch) having a conversation with the proprietor of the Lost Eel Inn, one Iffy Pete.

I was actually a bit concerned about this part -- the players didn't know that a rescue mission was in the cards, and for both time considerations and story reasons I didn't want them to have a lot of time to plan. There needed to be a reason a handful of 1st level characters found themselves in position to be a rescue party, so after establishing through a combination of roll play and narration a rapport between the players and Iffy Pete, they were introduced to a pair of Pete's friends who needed some local talent to help guard their troupe of traveling performers as they traveled to their next venue, which would take several days to reach. Once the party signed on as ... well, roadies, I guess ... they soon began to suspect that Pete's two friends may not be completely on the up-and-up. This sequence actually played out quite well -- they were happy to sign on for the job, but when the time came they were suspicious enough to be happy to part company when the opportunity arose. This also planted seeds for possible future adventures, because the PCs were unwittingly playing minor walk-on roles in an event that will have political implications in the near future.

Anyway, while traveling as guards with the performers some mounted forward scouts came back to alert the caravan to the presence of a small group of goblins just over the next rise. A little stealthy scouting revealed that about a half dozen goblins were firing arrows up into a tree not far off the road. After a brief conference, it was decided that the lack of nearby cover meant that there probably weren't any more goblins in the immediate area. It was further reasoned that since goblins are famous cowards they would probably flee if charged, which is exactly what happened.

While the rest of the traveling troupe were engaged in either chasing goblins or getting the caravan moving again, the PCs decided to investigate what the goblins had been shooting at up in the tree, from which they could hear the sound of hiccups. The Tabaxi Druid (or, according to the quick-tongued rogue, the cleric-like kitty cat raised by a coven of cultists) rushed up the tree to meet the real plot hoo ... err, a little goblin girl with the hiccups named Krumple.

Cliff notes description of Krumple: she is wearing what looks like a gunny sack frock with brightly-colored handprints arranged to look like flowers. She is clutching a broken piece of wood with a smiling face painted on it and a tuft of wool tacked on to serve as her dolly's hair. One of her quirks is that when frightened she is susceptible to fits of hiccups. For her voice, the mental note I made to myself was: try to sound like Peter Lorre on helium. I'm sure I didn't sound like Peter Lorre on any sort of gas, but it didn't matter: Krumple was a hit.

Through some pretty funny dialogue the players learned that her father had been a chieftain of a group of goblins, but she was now orphaned. She had primarily been raised by a Halfling slave she calls Nana Harbuckle. Krumple was fascinated by Nana's stories about the outside world: she hopes one day to see a real live dairy goat. The group of goblins had recently been taken over by a hobgoblin brute named Kerkuhl who had force-marched them to a temporary lair in nearby Spindledrift Mountain. Conditions had been very harsh, and Kerkuhl had most of the slaves butchered for meat; some of the less-useful goblins had met the same fate. Nana had made herself useful (running the goblin nursery, sewing, mending, etc.) and had so far been spared, but her time was running out: Kerkuhl had announced his intention to offer Ms. Harbuckle up as a sacrifice to a strange god (Jurghash) at the next full moon, which was just a few days away. With Nana locked up until the ceremony, Krumple was at her wit's end; and then: a miracle happened.

Well, not a miracle so much as an earthquake. The tunnels the goblins currently inhabit are a small part of a larger complex of ancient origin. Many of the tunnels have long been blocked off by fallen debris from earthquakes in bygone times, and Krumple's 'miracle earthquake' jarred open a secret door that afforded her an opportunity to run away. She explored her way through some tunnels and eventually found herself emerging from the 'hidden' side of another secret door that led to a sort of ruined chapel with stairs that led up to the outside world. She skulked around until she located the goblin lair's main entrance, and then (having some idea of where she was) she struck out south roughly following the route of an ancient causeway. Unfortunately, she was spotted by a goblin patrol which she had been dodging until she found herself up a tree talking to a furry druid. And hiccupping.

There was some talk of killing the evil goblin (danger: players at work) but the druid put her foot down: no harm would come to the child. Other players were eager to part company with their shifty comrades, and looking into Nana Harbuckle's little hobgoblin problem seemed like a reasonable excuse. The party informed the traveling troupe's leaders that they were determined to help the goblin child and would accompany the performers no further. At first the leaders were annoyed but, after a brief but animated argument, changed their tune somewhat. They approached the party and indicated that they could yet perform a service if they were so inclined: the delivery of a message to a Lord Cecil in a nearby town, but it was imperative that the message arrive no sooner than Noon five days hence. The players were assured that the message conveyed news that would be welcome to Lord Cecil, and also included instructions regarding payment for the couriers. This gave the players an 'out' from caravan duty and also gave them time to check out the goblin's lair in Spindledrift Mountain. On to the dungeon!

To be continued ...
honorentheos
God
Posts: 3762
Joined: Mon Nov 23, 2020 2:15 am

Re: Way Off-Topic: Question for RPGamers

Post by honorentheos »

Bret Ripley wrote:
Mon Feb 13, 2023 5:18 am
Because this was designed as a one-off (and given my lack of experience), I knew I couldn't be too ambitious in scope...
:shock:

Alright, BretBOTdotRipley, if that's your constrained, modest little beginning I don't know if the world is ready for the full scope and majesty of an unrestrained campaign.

That's to say, wow, I'm impressed. I love the bits of flavor you have interwoven throughout, making the story and NPCs feel rich. It sounds like the group really found themselves readily following the overarching plot you have threaded into the narrative, too. I'm anxious to hear more about how it resolved.
User avatar
Bret Ripley
2nd Counselor
Posts: 404
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 1:55 am

Re: Way Off-Topic: Question for RPGamers

Post by Bret Ripley »

honorentheos wrote:
Mon Feb 13, 2023 7:18 pm
:shock:

Alright, BretBOTdotRipley, if that's your constrained, modest little beginning ...
You are very kind. Is that allowed?

As a bit of self-criticism: back in the day spent way too much time on little details (most of which never ended up coming into play), and it is still true. There is a short story by Tolkien called "Leaf By Niggle" in which the protagonist -- an artist named Niggle -- is supposed to be working on a painting of a tree, but he never gets anywhere close to finishing it. Rather than work on the tree's trunk and branches, he spends all his time obsessively trying to get one leaf just right. I can identify with Niggle: at the game I was prepared to rattle off several inconsequential yarns the Innkeeper might relate, what was on the menu, and other such minutiae but if any of the players had asked the king's name I swear to God I would've had to check my notes!

And yes: the players were great. They are new to TTRPGs and were keen for adventure; getting them to the dungeon was all carrot and no stick, and very little carrot at that. The only pressure I applied was inside the dungeon when indecision set in -- even then all I had to do was explain the concept of wandering monsters/random encounters and then start rolling. They caught on fast.

Thanks again for recommending the Matt Colville videos, which are generally awesome. One of Matt's methods to motivate players is what he calls "chasing them up a tree" -- that phrase came back to me midgame when it dawned on me that I literally had one player up a tree. :)
Post Reply