Way Off-Topic: Question for RPGamers

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honorentheos
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Re: Way Off-Topic: Question for RPGamers

Post by honorentheos »

Bret Ripley wrote:
Sat Mar 02, 2024 5:06 am
honorentheos: I am curious how you handled this, and how things are working out.
Hey Bret -

Thanks for the interesting update to your own game's progress. I often get a similar sense of exhaustion after many sessions where I felt like I was flying by the seat of my pants improvising what I hope is something that pays off. Really, that's most games. What differs for me is it can feel exhausting but exhilarating, or exhausting and disappointing. I've wondered how much it is like stand up comedy where the audience reaction is integral to the experience? Maybe Schmo has thoughts on that he could share.

So, since my last update I had two one-shots over Christmas as well as integrated the two new folks into the game at work. The two one shots were fun, and both were kinda different despite being the same scenario.

The two new folks have been a blast to play with. One had played in one shots, the other only played Balder's Gate 3. Both had watched some Dimension 20 actual play, and they came to the game with a sense of possibility I hadn't realized was missing from some of the other newer players I had introduced to D&D without their having had any other real exposure. The two new players built up their backstories after hearing a bit about the campaign and talking with a couple of other people who were playing. Then we had a session with just the two of them to get them into the game. And that was the best D&D I've played in a very long time. So when I integrated them into the main game I took that as a cue that I needed to do more to facilitate the same kind of willingness to let loose and explore by the other players who had no other real experience. The last session we had was a little over three weeks ago and it was also an example of an exhausting but exhilarating game.

But on the less rosy side, I had two players who lost interest which in turn meant the game is still running with seven players rather than nine. I enjoyed the game with two so much, though, and kinda wish I could break that group up into two groups but so far that isn't in the cards.
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Re: Way Off-Topic: Question for RPGamers

Post by Bret Ripley »

honorentheos wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2024 4:20 am
Bret Ripley wrote:
Sat Mar 02, 2024 5:06 am
honorentheos: I am curious how you handled this, and how things are working out.
Hey Bret -

Thanks for the interesting update to your own game's progress. I often get a similar sense of exhaustion after many sessions where I felt like I was flying by the seat of my pants improvising what I hope is something that pays off. Really, that's most games. What differs for me is it can feel exhausting but exhilarating, or exhausting and disappointing.
Oh, to be sure. By contrast, I'm very rarely disappointed by game preparation -- maybe when I spend a lot of time working on a plot thread I come to realize is problematic, but even then there are usually elements that can be salvaged and used elsewhere.
I've wondered how much it is like stand up comedy where the audience reaction is integral to the experience? Maybe Schmo has thoughts on that he could share.
Seconded.
So, since my last update I had two one-shots over Christmas as well as integrated the two new folks into the game at work. The two one shots were fun, and both were kinda different despite being the same scenario.
Heh -- this just gave me a flashback to one of my first experiences as a player. I was one of a few new players joining an existing group, and the DM put us noobs through a scenario he had already run the main group through. I was rather proud of how we acquitted ourselves, having escaped with our skins. We later had to endure having the established players tell us how much better they handled it than we did, with the enthusiastic agreement of the DM. The bastards.
The two new folks have been a blast to play with. One had played in one shots, the other only played Balder's Gate 3. Both had watched some Dimension 20 actual play ...
I am a big fan. Whie I don't subscribe to a lot of streaming services, I just re-upped my annual subscription to Dropout because of Dimension 20. (Not only is it entertaining, I kind of like their whole deal -- for example, they are auctioning off minis and battle sets from the first season of Fantasy High with 100% of the profits going to Palestine Children's Relief Fund.)
Then we had a session with just the two of them to get them into the game. And that was the best D&D I've played in a very long time.
With just the 2 new players? I can appreciate just how cool that is. Some of the best D&D I've experienced was with just 2 or 3 players, but it had to be the right few players. The fact that your 2 players are completely new makes this especially exciting.
But on the less rosy side, I had two players who lost interest which in turn meant the game is still running with seven players rather than nine. I enjoyed the game with two so much, though, and kinda wish I could break that group up into two groups but so far that isn't in the cards.
Ah. Well, losing players isn't fun; but I think seven is quite a handful, particularly if several players want to "let loose and explore" individually.

I'm curious: when you introduce new players, at what level do you start them relative to the existing group?
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Re: Way Off-Topic: Question for RPGamers

Post by honorentheos »

Bret Ripley wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2024 8:57 pm
I'm curious: when you introduce new players, at what level do you start them relative to the existing group?
Since coming back to 5e I've kept the party levels balanced no matter when a new player joins us. I have also become a convert to milestone leveling due to experience points being unreliable. We started with using XP in the campaign I was running for my daughter and her friends, but a year into it I had come to realize we'd never advance fast enough for their satisfaction if we kept it up and switched.

Truth is, I think all of the games I currently DM or play in are too modern in terms of player expectations to be able to successful bring new PCs on at low level, or a PC death as cause to start over with a new level 1 PC.
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Re: Way Off-Topic: Question for RPGamers

Post by Bret Ripley »

Bret Ripley wrote:There has been a delicious in-game twist I could not have planned that has me almost giggling to myself. I won't mention it yet just in case one of our players stumbles across this thread. If this was a secure "GM" channel I'd throw it out there to share my good fortune: a player made an offhand decision in an almost throwaway bit of dialogue that, unknown to everyone but me, involves the sort of coincidence that could almost serve as the premise for a Shakespearian comedy. The stakes are positively deadly and they haven't got a clue. I can't wait to see what happens.
Bloody dreadful D&D last night. Or rather: we managed to shoehorn 30 minutes of decent D&D into about 2.5 hours. It was excruciating.

We picked up where we left off, at Zenobia the witch's house: some cryptic predictions and advice were dispensed that nobody bothered to write down. Zenobia mentioned that Ommitt (the resin construct-y like person they followed to the witch's house) is the soul of her 2nd husband preserved in earwax harvested from the primordial Frost Giant Snorri Sneffel-Sigurdsson, who was her 1st husband, and also her 5th. She was going to have Ommitt serve tea until she remembered he tended to dissolve in warm water. This was nonsense and nobody cared. The players seemed to be waiting for something to happen to them; in the end, we agreed to let time pass until the next day when they were due to deliver a sealed message to Lord Cecil.

The situation that had me so tickled in my previous update was a major fizzle: the party's rogue, already in hot water with the Thieves Guild, began using as a false identity the name of an NPC they met back in session 1 -- Iffy Pete of Bidahl. What made this fun (for me, anyway) was the fact that the players didn't know that Iffy Pete is now wanted dead or alive for acts of treason -- but this news hadn't caught up with them ... yet. The party learned of this during a public audience with Lord Cecil, who added the rumor that Iffy Pete may be hiding out in this very town. (The last bit is false, and is entirely based on the PC introducing himself by that name around town.)

Now, I thought this was going to be a fun twist: in the event, they were mainly curios about what the real Iffy Pete may have done, but there was little -to-no concern about the immediate danger to the fake Iffy Pete amongst them. After learning that his nom-de-guerre was on a hit list, the rogue went straight to the town's public notice board to look for jobs.

The good parts of last night's game included revealing some plot elements that were present in session 1 but left unexplained until now:

-- The seemingly pointless 'caravan escort' job that was part of the session 1 "one shot" turned out to be cover for the prison break (and possible kidnapping) of a political prisoner, whose backstory overlaps with the family history of the party's cleric.

-- The folks who hired the PCs had themselves been hired by (and were in the process of double-crossing) Lord Cecil, to whom the PCs were expected to deliver a sealed message -- but only after a certain amount of time had elapsed. (Neith Cecil nor the PCs were aware of the double-cross at the time they delivered the message.)

-- The cleric had been piecing together bits of what they had learned and how that filled in certain gaps in her family's history. Due to his involvement in the prison break she reasoned that Cecil could reveal even more; but once Cecil learned he was being double-crossed the window of opportunity would close. The cleric decided to risk it but didn't want to put her companions at risk and so went back alone to confront Cecil. Cecil had no idea about the cleric's family connections and agreed to a (second) meeting with the cleric. After an almost disastrous Persuasion attempt our Trickster cleric resorted to Charm Person -- here we finally had some drama, and I rolled Cecil's Wisdom save in the middle of the table: he needed a 12 on the die and rolled 11. That could have been ugly, but instead she learned some very valuable information regarding the fate of a missing aunt.

After our Trickster cleric's interview with the charmed Cecil, the party knew they had to hit the bricks before Cecil came to his senses. The party returned to their starting town from session 1 (Bidahl) and did some fruitless investigating of Iffy Pete's old digs. They learned from locals that old Pete had disappeared along with his boat the same night the PCs had left town with the caravan, which was also the same night a prison break had occurred from Hangman's Rock, an island prison located a few miles downstream from Iffy Pete's Inn. (The prison is a panopticon, because panopticons are cool and it's fun to say.) There were reports that a boat that looked like Iffy Pete's had been spotted abandoned (some said wrecked) some ways downstream. Locally, it was thought that Iffy Pete probably died on the river that night -- whether or not he had been involved in the prison break, it seemed inconceivable he would voluntarily abandon his Inn, leaving behind valuables and without putting his affairs in order.

The PCs took the road that followed the river downstream searching for any clues that could shed light on the prison break or Iffy Pete's fate. They located a place downstream from Hangman's Rock where picketed horses had churned up the ground in the not-too-distant past. (We started this campaign over a year ago, but it's only been a little over a week in game time.) Rather further downstream they spied a boat hung up on a snag out in the river, several hundred feet from the bank. They were eventually able to reach and salvage the boat, which turned out to be Iffy Pete's "Gorgonzola." Here the players engaged in a little deductive reasoning: when the players first reached the Gorgonzola I mentioned that the tiller had been tied, and they combined that with the memory that Iffy Pete was a retired river pilot to conclude that Gorgonzola had been purposely set adrift and probably unoccupied when it hit the snag. They didn't know if Iffy Pete was still alive, but they were reasonably confident he hadn't died on the river that night.

So there was some good stuff. But there was a lot of indecision and hesitation along the way. After the meetings with Cecil they knew they couldn't stay in town, but with no assigned tasks they were at a loss. Options were discussed but nobody felt strongly about any of them, so ... yeah. After a painful period of time I started to gently float the idea that maybe a 'sandbox' style game wasn't a good fit for us, at which point our most experienced player -- who is not assertive by nature -- expressed her preferred course of action which quickly became the plan and we were finally back in action.

But man. On the drive home my wife said what I was thinking: "I don't think I enjoyed that."
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Re: Way Off-Topic: Question for RPGamers

Post by Bret Ripley »

honorentheos wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2024 12:46 am
Bret Ripley wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2024 8:57 pm
I'm curious: when you introduce new players, at what level do you start them relative to the existing group?
Since coming back to 5e I've kept the party levels balanced no matter when a new player joins us. I have also become a convert to milestone leveling due to experience points being unreliable. We started with using XP in the campaign I was running for my daughter and her friends, but a year into it I had come to realize we'd never advance fast enough for their satisfaction if we kept it up and switched.

Truth is, I think all of the games I currently DM or play in are too modern in terms of player expectations to be able to successful bring new PCs on at low level, or a PC death as cause to start over with a new level 1 PC.
Thanks ... I can see the sense in all of that. It runs counter to some things that were almost ingrained in me, but ... well, long live the modern game, say I. I am also sold on using milestones, even though my younger self would be disappointed in me. ("D&D without grinding? Go play checkers.")
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Re: Way Off-Topic: Question for RPGamers

Post by Physics Guy »

When I started running games there were formulas for how many experience points players got for each monster they killed—and for every item of loot they acquired. At some point I decided that tying experience and treasure together was an arbitrary constraint. They were both valuable rewards and it would only add flexibility to separate them, so that financial windfalls and unrewarded heroism could be possible independently.

To make up for the loss of all those xp-for-gp points, I started just awarding large blocks of experience at milestone campaign events. I don't remember now whether I just came up with this idea myself. It might well have been prompted by some suggestion I read somewhere, probably in the old Dragon magazine, but it wasn't a standard option at the time.

The old AD&D rulebooks harped a lot on "game balance", to keep things challenging, so I still used the treasure value as a guideline for how big these blocks should be. My treasure amounts were at least loosely guided by the the rules and tables for random treasure for given monster types.

Levelling up your character is such a big part of the game that it is always tending to eclipse the storytelling and role-playing aspects. People complain about "munchkinism", where RPG players focus only on powering up their characters, but it's what brings the customers. Given that, though, it's weird how little most RPG campaigns seem to do to explain why and how a small subset of the population is evolving from ordinary teenagers into gods within a few years. It's rare even to have an innkeeper express surprise at how those kids from last year have just slain the Lich King, let alone for anyone to explain how the heck that could happen.

One option is to make some effort to tie the levelling to ordinary learning, by having wizards discover old scrolls, or fighters learn moves from those ogres, or whatever. It still seems hard to make this work. In fantasy you can whip up all kinds of excuses but you still can't fix the fact that the rate at which D&D player characters gain power feels way faster and easier than any normal kind of learning or training. And it's an awkward burden on a campaign to explain why the PCs can't gain experience just by going to the library or the gym for a few months, or to have to put arcane libraries into every dungeon just so that the wizards can get their levels.

When I started making a whole new game system from scratch, shortly before I ran out of all time for game-mastering, I decided to make PC ascension an explicit part of the campaign world. Ordinary people didn't talk about levels or hit points, or anything, but everybody in the world knew that some special people were blessed—or cursed—with the mysterious potential to gain new abilities quickly through encounters with certain kinds of danger. The campaign universe was know to be onion-like, a series of nested parallel dimensions that became more and more wondrous and deadly as one moved inward—if one could find the secret ways of moving inward. The biggest steps in player character power came from moving inward to a deeper layer of the world, where the very laws of nature were richer and stranger. Some people were destined to reach the Core and confront the gods. This was going to be the main arc of the campaign, but I ran out of time.
I was a teenager before it was cool.
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Re: Way Off-Topic: Question for RPGamers

Post by Res Ipsa »

I really like the milestone system for XP. Or skip the XP and use milestones as leveling points. I think it makes for better storytelling.

Maybe it's just age or the crowd I play with, but the RPers I play with are story driven rather than character-leveling driven. Several years ago, I played with a group of munchkins. I didn't enjoy it at all.

On another front, I finally DM'd my first RPG. It was a very simple, one page RPG called Adventure Skeletons. It's mostly silly, but the players say they are having fun. That's what counts.
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Re: Way Off-Topic: Question for RPGamers

Post by honorentheos »

Bret Ripley wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2024 3:57 am
Bret Ripley wrote:There has been a delicious in-game twist I could not have planned that has me almost giggling to myself. I won't mention it yet just in case one of our players stumbles across this thread. If this was a secure "GM" channel I'd throw it out there to share my good fortune: a player made an offhand decision in an almost throwaway bit of dialogue that, unknown to everyone but me, involves the sort of coincidence that could almost serve as the premise for a Shakespearian comedy. The stakes are positively deadly and they haven't got a clue. I can't wait to see what happens.
Bloody dreadful D&D last night. Or rather: we managed to shoehorn 30 minutes of decent D&D into about 2.5 hours. It was excruciating.

(snip)

So there was some good stuff. But there was a lot of indecision and hesitation along the way. After the meetings with Cecil they knew they couldn't stay in town, but with no assigned tasks they were at a loss. Options were discussed but nobody felt strongly about any of them, so ... yeah. After a painful period of time I started to gently float the idea that maybe a 'sandbox' style game wasn't a good fit for us, at which point our most experienced player -- who is not assertive by nature -- expressed her preferred course of action which quickly became the plan and we were finally back in action.

But man. On the drive home my wife said what I was thinking: "I don't think I enjoyed that."
Hey Bret,

I've been there for sure. I'd guess anyone who's ever DM'd a game has as well. Hopefully you don't let it sour you passion, and your next session is more of the exhausting but exhilarating kind for everyone.

It's interesting you mention liking Dimension 20. I'm a fan as well, and I've been combining something I've observed in how Brennen GMs games with something from the Alexandrian I mentioned earlier in the thread. That being, I have come to realize that the GM Brennen we get to see on D20 is only partially a sandbox GM. But given the nature of production needs with time constraints and a need to keep things entertaining, he's quick to shut down derails and move the game to something interesting in a way I would have considered railroading more than I have been comfortable doing myself. While reading through Justin Alexander's book with this in the back of my mind, it struck me that what I could improve on was moving the story quickly to meaningful choices. And I realized I see many scenarios as having meaningful choices available that the players don't, so I had to consider why that was? I realized often it is because I'm looking at the scene with information the players lack and seeing possibilities that aren't necessarily clear to them, and only become available if the players buy in to seeing the situation as having interesting, meaningful choices available as well. That has led me to try and do better during preparation and in game play looking at a situation through the player's eyes and considering if the choice is actually meaningful to them? Or am I too deep in my own head canon seeing the matrix they can't see? Could the situation be enriched for both the players and me if I interject information that highlights why we're stopping at this point for them to engage? Can I set up that situation where they gain new information into a clear opportunity for them to make a meaningful choice? Or should I do something else that they will better enjoy and slip the information in instead? Also, I am pretty guilty of missing chances in game to take something they come up with and pivoting it into a meaningful choice. I'm working on that. At one of the one shots I DM'd, we had a player attempt to do something that was going to yield a non-result because it wouldn't matter what they rolled, they were barking up the wrong tree with their attempt. In the past I would have either let them roll and tell them they didn't find what they were looking for. I'd more recently taken to just telling folks without rolling they look for it and there was nothing there to make it clear it wasn't due to a bad roll. But now I used their dice roll to pivot them onto information that actually WAS useful, taking the cue from Brennen that we didn't have time whack-a-mole in a one-shot so the fact he was seeking information and had to roll was a good reason to use the roll to give him something scalable and useful. After that game, my nephew who also DMs commented to me about it, saying he actually liked how I did that, and he was going to be using it as a technique. I told him I picked it up from BLM and appreciated the outside DM validation it worked and didn't seem too railroady.

As a planned example from a work game session recently, I decided to kick the session off with an escaped ancient basilisk running amok in the marketplace just as the session started with the PCs standing around trying to remember what they wanted to do from the last session. Why? It gave them something to focus on in a format they really enjoy most (combat with environmental complications creating an interesting scenario). And for me the environment of a marketplace full of people gave me access to plenty of options and opportunities to interject bits of information as it played out. It went very well, and the resulting roleplay after this came much easier and more freely.

But I also had a weird failure last session that I'm still mulling over. The set up was the group had ventured into a pocket dimension, accompanied by the dimension's ostensible owner, to retrieve a copy of the Mallus Deus he had been hiding there. He is Drow and had been planning on using it to get revenge on the city he came from that had ostracized him and kicked him out decades before. This plan of his included unleashing demons in the city through the book. But unbeknownst to the players, he had been seeking Lolth's attention with promises of sending her souls if she'd help him get his revenge, ultimately offering his own soul when it was over as well. He's a tragic figure and been at the center of interesting roleplay moments with some of the PCs arguing they should kill him, others that he needs rehabilitated, and one making an attempt to befriend him. Anyway. What he didn't know, but they all found out, was Lolth is using the contact through the grimoire to take over this pocket dimension and absorb it into the demon web pits. So when the party came into the presence of the book, she spoke to each of them telepathically seeking someone who would help the book and her escape the dimension and unleash her into the material plane. She asked each in turn what they sought, then attempted to offer them access to their deepest desires with her promising to aid them as they ascend together to great power. The two new players roleplayed it well, giving the encounter room to breathe and genuinely contemplating the pros and cons of giving in to the promises made by the aspect of Lolth reaching out through the book. But rest of the group just noped out of that and went directly to doing other video-game like things. One attacked the book kicking off initiative. Two others went around the room attempting to open the hidden doors they had spotted when they first came down into the chamber where the book was kept and then sought to go dungeon exploring. It largely felt like a jumbled mess of intentions that most of the players found confusing rather than as a chance to explore a dramatic internal social encounter that asked questions about their PC's inner livers to create the fun. So I turned to combat, gave them a group combat mechanic I have used successfully in the past and got them into something I knew they'd all enjoy. That mechanic includes each rounds starting after a 3 minute hour glass counts down while they discuss what they will do as a team. Then I allow them to combine actions and bonus actions to enact their plans interspersed with the monster actions, keeping things moving quickly and as cinematically as possible to resolve the consequences of those choices. It's the most effective tool I've found for large groups who can make combat a grind otherwise. And the night ended with folks saying they had a good time. And it seemed like they did by the end to me, too.

So why was the social encounter with Lolth I thought was going to be high drama almost a complete bomb? The two new players who like roleplay most were into it, but the fact was it was losing the other players interest so completely I had to drop it and move to something that brought them all back together. I have come to accept this group I'm playing with have specific things they find enjoyable and I'm coming more and more to the realization that if I want them to have fun I need to give them a few consistent experiences each session or they don't enjoy it. And I'm ok with that. I figure I need to plan each game session with intention to ensure that not only are they finding decision points they find meaningful, but also giving them rewards they find incentivizing. Man do they love loot. And I'm a DM who had to realize lore isn't a reward at all to most folks in most contexts outside of an explicit mystery they know is a mystery with them in the detective role. Often I've been guilty of thinking I was rewarding certain actions by giving information I thought would be interesting as a consequence for making decisions, only to learn if it didn't involve loot they didn't see it as incentivizing as I had hoped.

I wonder if the best default assumption for 5e games until you know the players is to assume folks want level climbing games with access to lots of magic items? Until you discover or already know party is the kind of folks who are more interested in roleplay as reward? And so far, I've not found that group in my experience since coming back. I have played with players who are like that, but they are almost always willing to let the party do what they prefer since it's easier for them to have fun in that style of game than it is the other way around. It sounds like Res may play with a group like that, but every group I've played with or DM'd for in the last 3-1/2 years or so have ultimately proven to be dominated by the players who want rewards in the form of magic items and fast power gain.

Oh, here's a link to the Alexandrian blog on the topic that I found helpful: https://thealexandrian.net/wordpress/31 ... -of-pacing
Last edited by honorentheos on Wed Apr 10, 2024 6:31 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Way Off-Topic: Question for RPGamers

Post by honorentheos »

Also, I'm running a solo session for one of the players in this campaign tomorrow, and spent a chunk of the day today prepping for it. He has been unable to play with the group for two full sessions now, but will be rejoining the game next session which is in two weeks. I can't just drop him back in, though, given the circumstances, and so I floated the idea of us running a mini-sesh to make it work more naturally. He liked the idea, and then told me what he was interested in doing. I decided I could make it work. So we'll see how it goes.

He last played in the session before the basilisk was let loose in the market. It had ended just after the party had staked out the building where their old friends the the jackalweres from the first few sessions had shown back up in this new city. The party had decided they wanted to go investigate the building in the middle of the night, did so, and then went back to the tavern inn to sleep and decide what they would do in the morning. The last session he was in ended with the party at breakfast discussing if they should go confront the Jessels or investigate the traveling potion seller instead. At the next session without this player, they decided to investigate the potion seller, The player who missed the session had wanted to investigate the jackalweres. So we decided it would work for him to have slipped away from the party and go do so on his own which we will play out tomorrow. Then if it works out and he doesn't die, it gives him a chance to return to the tavern they were at where he can be told where the rest of the group is and how to join them in the pocket dimension. Or not. We'll see. But either way I think it will be interesting to DM for him solo. I'll let you know how it goes.
Last edited by honorentheos on Sun Mar 24, 2024 4:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Way Off-Topic: Question for RPGamers

Post by honorentheos »

I think I'll try something new, too. I'm posting my preparation notes below to see both how that works and in the off chance anyone has helpful thoughts.

Time matters to sync with prior events.
  • 0700 – 0730: All is calm, party eating breakfast after the events at the Stoa. Null has been chastised by Juomo.
    0730 – 7:40: Commotion in marketplace as Basilisk is let loose, fireball at Preston’s wagon at end.
    0740- 0800: Order of Aurelius investigates events at the zoo and fireball; party interrogates Preston before heading into the pocket dimension
    0830: Party enters pocket dimension; Order of Aurelius arrives outside Stoa questioning witnesses further about the fireball.
    0845: Captain Zeno arrives at Stoa to join guards, and to specifically question Juomo since only Zeno knows that Juomo is also Jai Tum and situations with Juomo can be politically sensitive. Captain Zeno will wait with Juomo for party to return out of the pocket dimension. A squad of 13 spearmen will also be within earshot if he calls for them. Four will be standing outside the Stoa from this time until it makes sense for them to leave for reasons yet to be determined. Remainder will be inside the tavern occupying tables.
Characters
Null – Aasimar Oath Breaker Paladin. Father ordered him killed by Sire Bedivere but he did not finish the job due to his having genuine attachment to Null that kept him from slicing his throat. He had taught Null, including teaching him to never leave a violent enemy at one’s back without assuring oneself they will not rise again. Null wants to find power enough to return one day and usurp his father.

NPCs
Juomo – Keeper of the Lycea Stoa and head of the Jai Tum in Orossads. Stout halfling, powerful Arcane Trickster rogue.

Reytha, Tiefling fortune teller, from Siandia, travels to local fairs and markets, so is only in the small city occasionally. Knows Null, and has came recently from Siandia.
  • • Appearance: lavender skin contrasting her long, luxuriant red hair brushed and held by a loose gold ribbon tied so her hair flows behind her barely gathered to keep it off her face. Her horns are shaped like those of rams, dark purple bordering on obsidian black, and ringed by multiple engraved silver and gold bands adorned with hanging charms. One of her canines has been replaced with a gold tooth.
    • Null has known her his whole life as “Wandering Reytha”, and the children in Siandia would get excited when she returned from being away as she most often was because she always had the best stories.
    • Null’s father disliked her and Null was taught to leave her alone as someone whose life and values differed from those of the devotees of Lothander.
    • Age: unclear to Null but guess possibly mid-40s.


The Jessels, jackelware pack that has been setting up a new home in Orossads. They arrived about two weeks ago and are just getting the shop opened.
  • Korvala: 32-year-old jackalwere. A tall and imposing figure with an authoritative air that instills confidence in her allies and fear in her enemies. Though normally calm and composed, Korvala becomes angry and combative when recalling the struggles she and her pack have experienced, including Nidalia’s death and being persecuted since then. She wants to get revenge on the Grinning Sinners in Purevault, but Lady Miessa says they need to first seek to bring about the greater cause of their true master, Graz’zt.

    Avani, a middle-aged jackalwere who considers it her duty to keep the rest of her pack from doing anything to attract attention from the Orders of Orossads

    Inbar, a quiet, reserved jackalwere who wears spectacles in his human and hybrid forms. He also has a deep sense of injustice left from the pack not seeking revenge for their fallen companion and his brother’s injury at the hands of the party. But he agrees with Korvala that revenge is best accomplished through cunning rather than rash action.

    Marliza, a petite jackalwere whose wide eyes and long braids belie her cunning. She is working the counter today.
    Ramah, Inbar’s outspoken brother, was severely injured by the party in Duskwich and ran off into the woods rather than die. He holds a grudge against Annalee, Ellery, and Null. He is more likely to act rashly than his brother, Inbar, though they share the same feelings.

    Zan, the oldest pack member, who hums quietly while they organize the books
Valenour, wood elf running the archery game. Came from Baturiv.

Begga Goldworthy, stout halfling, baker and manager of the pie eating competition. Has a shop in Resha and came to celebration as an annual tradition of hers since she has been a kid.

## Scenes
  • * Lycea Stoa: Leaves breakfast with the party to slip out and investigate the pawn shop they had visited the night before.
    * Road: “A voice calls out to the early morning merry-makers, practiced, seductive, mysterious and…familiar.” Reytha has a table set up on the road between the Stoa and Wares for All where she is selling fortunes. Null will have the opportunity to learn more about what has happened in Siandia since he left six months ago.
    * Wares for All: Jessels have made a new home in Orossads since leaving Duskwich. Their dead matron, Nidalia, is lost so they came to Orossads to her sister, Lady Miessa, who happened to know that this former brothel that was vacant. They are not friendly to the party as they killed Theryn and severely injured Ramah who only recently has felt fully healed though he has a scar from the battle that shows in all his forms.
    * Marketplace aftermath from the party’s morning adventures. A squad of the Order of Aurelius has made its way through the market after the unleashing and killing of the ancient basalisk.
    • They determined that something had poisoned the traveling zoo keeper while he was preparing the morning meals for the animals before the day began, and the lock on the gate to the basalisk cage had appeared to be picked and left on the ground.
    • The footprints they could find were odd, unlike any known natural animal or humanoid. They are waiting for experts to finish their investigations of the prints to see if they can learn more.
    • People claim that a fierce duo of a goliath and a strange sorcerer with a feather beard had slain it, then ran in the opposite direction.
    • Some rumor there was a winter eladrin who had shot at it with arrows as well but no arrows were found in the body of the beast.
    • Some claim to have seen a woman warrior with strange eyes kidnap the traveling potion seller when this was going on, and that she had dragged him into the Lycea Stoa.
    • Not long after she had done this, his cart had been engulfed in a massive fireball that had killed a couple of folk unfortunately standing nearby.
    • One survivor who had been standing nearby but was fortunate enough to have been just far enough away he was only briefly blinded by the flames claims to have seen an elven woman hop out of the cart and run into the Stoa around the same time.
    * Lycea Stoa: Depends on timing but likely get there while Zeno and Juomo are waiting for the party to come back out.
    * Pocket Dimension: Null may choose to join the party by going into it. If so, he is not on the guest list and the Tabaxi wight named Petit à petit du pointe will direct the zombies and skeletons above the tombs to attack him.

## Secrets and Clues
  • * Raytha: Njah told the people of Siandia that Null had been killed protecting him as mayor and the high priest of Lothandar from Parvis Gustryr; that Parvis had been a powerful warlock serving the demon lord Demogorgon and had consumed Null in eldritch vortex. Null had died a hero, though, drawing his attention and allowing Sire Bedivere to strike a fatal blow to Parvis. Parvis’ corpse had been displayed to the City before being burned and the ashes sealed in holy water, and it had been covered in ritual abyssal tattoos everyone was told were the mark of Demogorgon received when Parvis gave himself to the demon lord.
    * Raytha: Knows tattoo magic and recognized the tattoos weren’t of Demogorgon but rather of Graz’zt. They did appear to be marks of devotion, though.
    * Raytha: Heard the orc tribe known as the Atakar decimated the Sh’lar, the nomadic tribe of aasimar which she had been born into but left at a young age when it was clear her tiefling lineage was a problem in many places they went. The Atakar have been very active recently, raiding villages and attacking almost anyone with any connection to elves, and have been heard demanding clues to the whereabouts of a child winter eladrin.
    * Raytha: Had heard a rumor that Sire Bedivere had a male lover, Arryn Kelle, who had left the village not long after Null had left. Raytha saw him about a week ago on the road between Autumn Guard and Orossads, in the company of five others apparently coming from Palisades wearing the cloak of a member of The Archivist Militant which are the armed members of the Consortium Obscura out of Palisades.
    * Raytha: The younger daughter of the keepers of the Home and Hearth Tavern, Annalee Bina, had disappeared at the same time. Her parents claim she had gone to Purevault to finish some type of schooling, but Raytha had been in Purevault since then and never saw her.
    * Korvala: Lady Miessa is a lamia like Nidalia was, and she also serves Graz’zt.
    * Korvala: Lady Miessa has told her that a copy of the book Nadalia was given by Graz’zt stolen from them by Richard Fox is here in Orossads, and that if Korvala has a chance to acquire it she should do so and let Lady Miessa know once she has it.
    *Any jackelwere: Lady Miessa lives in a compound outside the city to the north. Any can provide a basic map and directions on how to get to it. Only Korvala knows the basic interior layout.
    * Korvala: Will offer a vial of soul catcher oil in exchange for the promise to kill all members of the Grinning Sinner’s guild in Purevault. Promise has a time limit of 1 month, after which the spirits in the blade will be unleashed as specters and attempt to kill the person who broke their promise.
    Soul catcher oil causes a weapon to be able to capture the soul of any creature killed by it, up to 6 souls total. Each soul captured by the blade increases its power as follows:
    1) Causes body of a creature killed by the weapon to turn into a gold piece
    2) Gains +1 damage
    3) Gains +1 to hit
    4) Instead of effect 1, body turns into a platinum piece
    5) Causes an additional 1d4 of necrotic damage
    6) Once per day, wielder can use an action to summon a specter from the blade who will obey its commands for 1 minute before being reabsorbed into the weapon.
    * Korvala knows the merchant Darvon Reynolds works for Lady Miessa.
    * Preston bought the Mallus Deus in Duskwich about 73 days ago, recognizing the power it held but not that it was a copy. He is hoping to use it to get revenge on the Drow city he came from that kicked him out.
    * Zeno knows the Quillwells of Fairbanks are working with a sorcerer named the Butcher who also claims to have one of the books due to an informant who is still in Orossads. Juomo knows about the Butcher but not the informant thanks to Josiah Stone, but has pretended this is news to him for the time being.
    * Raytha also knows something about Null’s past which she will not volunteer but will share if he asks if she does since she was alive and from the village when he was born. She knew his mother, that died the same time Null was born but no one ever saw her body. His father, who had not been mayor at the time but had been a well-respected book keeper for the Church of Lothandar, had been so grief stricken by her death he had shut himself up in the office of the church accepting no outside food or drink for over six weeks until he emerged on the morning of Solus declaring Lothandar had shown him in vision the true light even to be found in the darkness of death. Raytha, reading is aura, saw in it that of the eclipse, blinding to look at but at its center was darkness, and has not trusted him since.

WARES for ALL MAP KEY
1) Front lobby. 15’x40’, with a large wooden engraved standing desk set squarely center opposite the double entry doors and flanked by short series of five wood steps each on either side leading up to the wooden floor of whatever room or rooms lie behind the wall behind the desk. The ornate wooden door seemingly overly done for a pawn shop is only the first sign the building had been used for other purposes in the very recent past. The engravings on the desk suggestive of the pleasures awaiting the former patron.
  • a. Rich wood paneling covers the walls on which hang more suggestive artworks. The only sign this is a pawn shop now being each as a handwritten tag hanging from their frames stating a price even someone with no skill in art appraisal would recognize is outrageous.
    b. The window pane over the front door appears to be new, and a sign of attempts to let natural light in the building to better suit the change in business.
    c. The air smells of years of being saturated with incense and perfumes, having permeated the materials of the building so thoroughly there is no chance of airing them out. Undertones of old memories of tobacco smoke come through at intervals as movement somewhere in the building shifts the flow of air out into the lobby.
    d. On opposite sides of the door are unlit brassieres that clearly served dual purposes as incense burners, possibly of real gold from their looks. The two somewhat plain wooden benches that are again mirrored to either side of the door seeming the only items somewhat out of place given their lack of comfort or apparent craftsmanship.
    e. Behind the desk, standing at work making entries into a leather bound ledger, is a petite young woman with wide, brown eyes framed by long coffee brown braids, her sharp features familiar to you through she seems to greet you with the practices welcome she’d give any visitor.
    i. Marliza, a petite jackalwere whose wide eyes and long braids belie her cunning. She is working the counter today.
    f. There is a book case in which are two dozen titles of books all for sale. They are more for appearance than for use by the person at the desk though it is possible some members of the pack read them while waiting for customers.
    g. The dresser behind the desk is empty.
    h. The desk has a flower vase with fresh flowers in it, an ink well being sued by Marliza, and a statue. The statue is a gingwatzem that is there to help protect the person at the front desk if needed.
2) Main Room. 50’x70’. The room appears to be sunken 3 feet below a surrounding low mezzanine made of wood with railing that rings the room on all four sides. In reality, the room is at the same level as the lobby but the stairs from lobby take one first up to the mezzanine and them back down to the interior, creating a sense of intimacy and separation.
  • a. The room itself still shows its old life as a place of entertainment with carpeted floors, colored draps, richly painted walls, and lit by two chandeliers still needed in day time due to the lack of windows that look clearly into the space.
    b. The platform in the center of the room is now home to shelves with various goods laid out. The low tables and couches also now serving to display items for sale.
3) Spike trap. Filled with crates and various random items of mundane value on top of the old bed and furnishings.Rooms 3 through 8 are old bedrooms now being used for storage. Items in rooms 3 and 4 are full of items the Jessel’s brought with them and are yet to be sorted.
  • a. Rooms 3-5, 7-8 are closed and their doors locked. Because jackelwares are immune to non-silvered weapons that do normal damage, the doors are rigged with spike traps since they are not concerned with accidentally setting one off. The traps are set if someone attempts to open the door without unlocking it or fails a DC 15 dex check to pick the lock. The doors open when the knob is turned as the lock is set to release when the knob is turned regardless, but failure to use the key first means the trap is set when the door opens. A person who sets off a trap takes 2d6 piercing damage on a failed DEX Save DC 13, or half damage on a success. The noise also alerts everyone in the building.
4) Spike trap. Filled with crates and various random items of mundane value on top of the old bed and furnishings.
5) Spike trap. Empty except for the bed and old furnishings. Rooms 5, 6, 7, and 8 are for items that have been pawned but are still within the reclamation period. The Jessels have a system where the items are first placed in room 6 when first pawned, and then moved to rooms 7, 8, and then 5 each week so that they can easily keep track of what items can be sold after the 30 day reclamation period. This idea was Inbar’s.
6) Room 6, Inbar has the door open and he can be heard moving items around. The shop has only been open recently so only this room has a handful of pawned items in it.
  • a. This room has the following items arranged on the bed still in the room:
    i. Scroll of Fireball (Single Use) - 300 gold pieces, reclaim in 30 days
    ii. Amulet of Natural Armor (+1 AC) - 500 gold pieces, reclaim in 30 days
    iii. Mundane items
    b. Inbar recognizes Null if he does not disguise himself but will hide it (Deception 16). Inbar holds personal anger behind the quiet façade towards the party who had injured his brother in Duskwich, and he will want to see Null punished. But he will also want to find out if the rest of the party is in the City so he’ll pretend to not recognize Null while asking questions about where he came from, if he came alone, if he used to have companions and where they are at now, etc.
7) Spike trap. Empty except for the bed and old furnishings.
8) Spike trap. Empty except for the bed and old furnishings.
9) Marliza’s bed room.
10) Korvala’s bed room. Kovala knows Marliza slips out at nights and says nothing to the others as she understands she is young and finding herself, and they have had a lot of trauma in recent months.
11) Room 11 is the stairs up to the 2nd floor. An invisible quasit is hiding here (Stealth 19). It will consider using fright on a person unaccompanied by a Jessel if it appears they have been actively attacking the Jessels. If they are being sneaky, it will alert the Jessels first.
12) Room 12 is the Privy Chamber. Weirdly has side-by-side privy seats. There is a dresser with rags, and a wand of limited Prestidigitation hanging next to the seats. Amusingly it also has a price tag on it of 200 GP. It has unlimited charges but can only clean an object (or a creature’s bottom in this case) and cause a minor pleasant odor. The room has a glyph over the door that requires an arcana check to identify DC 20, that will cause the wand to lose it’s magic if it is removed from the room through the door. Dispel magic can remove the glyph.
13) Room 13 is an old entertainment room that now houses magic items for sell. Those include:
  • a. Arrow of the Hydra (Weapon, arrow, single use): This fine arrow is tipped with a sharp hydra's tooth. When you hit a target with it, the arrow deals an extra 2d6 poison damage. If you miss, the arrow lands in a square selected by the GM, within 30 feet of your intended target. At the start of the next round, an undead skeleton claws out of the ground in that square. The skeleton acts on its own initiative count, and attacks the nearest living creature until reduced to 0 hit points.
    b. Oil of Monstrous Disguise (Potion): This sticky oil can can cover a Medium or smaller creature, and takes 10 minutes to apply to yourself. You make yourself look like a piercer, rust monster, death dog, harpy, ettercap, grick, mimic, peryton, or basilisk. The effect is otherwise as the spell Disguise Self (phb 233).
    c. Oil of Rotting Flesh (Potion): This rancid oil can cover a Medium or smaller undead skeleton, and takes 10 minutes to apply. The affected undead is transformed into an undead zombie.
    d. Tankard of Sobriety (common, xge 139)
    e. Boots of Speed (rare, dmg 155).
    f. Ring of Jumping (uncommon, dmg 191)
    It is protected by a banishment trap (DC 18 perception to spot, DC 18 Arcana to disarm or casting disperse magic). Operates the same as the spikes but instead teleports the person who sets it off into a pocket dimension for 1 minute. CHA save DC 16 to avoid. When trap is set off a loud yipping in a range only audible to dogs (and jackals) goes off alerting the pack of the intruder. Dogs within 1000 feet of the alarm begin to howl as well. Resets after 1 hour up to two more times (3 charges), then regains charges at dawn.
14) Room 14 is an old entertainment room that now has a shrine on the dresser dedicated to Nidalia. There is also a portrait of Theryn on the dresser. At the center of the shrine is a gold plate (35 GP) on which lies an object about the size of a large grapefruit wrapped in black cloth. The object is a large heart, dried with time, that was the only part of Nidalia the pack was able to save from Duskwich. They have kept it with some hope they may one day still revive her though they know it will now be even more costly and difficult.
15) 2nd Floor has not been modified by the Jessels since moving in. Upstairs are the following members of the pack. They are all in hybrid forms while upstairs.
  • a. Kovala, helping Avani go over their plans for updating the building.
    b. Avani, a middle-aged jackalwere who considers it her duty to keep the rest of her pack from doing anything to attract attention from the Orders of Orossads. Has been at work preparing a building remodel plan for their new, more opulent abode. It includes converting portions of the 2nd floor into a nursery. She isn’t showing yet, but she is expecting pups. Ramah is the father.
    c. Ramah, Inbar’s outspoken brother, was severely injured by the party in Duskwich and ran off into the woods rather than die. He holds a grudge against Annalee, Ellery, and Null. He is more likely to act rashly than his brother, Inbar, though they share the same feelings. He is also very protective of Avani who has become his lover in recent weeks. He suspects but does not know if she is pregnant, only that in jackal and hybrid forms he can smell her body has been changing.
    d. Zan, the oldest pack member, who hums quietly while they are cooking in the kitchen. He knows that Avani is pregnant as well because he has seen everything and knows the signs. He is also very protective of her as she is the future of the pack.
This floor was used in carnal rituals by the Kyrenikoi, most evidently by the large statue of two nude succubae posed provocatively on either side of a life-sized statue of Graz’zt at the far end of the room.

Avani was given the bedroom behind the ritual area by Kovala who had told the pack it was because she was the oldest female in the pack. But it is really due to her soon needing the larger bed for the pups.

Zan gets the other private room on this floor, while Ramah and Inbar sleep in two of the beds in the more common area curtained off to the side.


## Potential Monsters
  • • Gingwatzem
    • Quasits
    • Jackalweres
    • Babau (can be summoned by Kovala if absolutely necessary but she can’t control it. It’s a danger close condition for her to do so)

## Potential Treasure
## Wares for All Goods Tables

Oddities:
  • 1. A small golden sphere with a pair of crumpled silver wings
    2. A kobold's skull floating in a bottle of clear amber fluid
    3. Origami Food and Water (Scroll): You can use an action to read this scroll, which causes it to fold itself into origami food and a cup of water. The food is bland but nourishing, enough to sustain you for 24 hours.
    4. A monstrous eye floating in a bottle of clear red fluid
    5. A crystalline orb trapped in the coils of an iron serpent
    6. A steel gauntlet with the word, “Tyrant” engraved into it
    7. A loosely-bound folio of columns of strange glyphs
    8. A lock of white hair preserved in glass
    9. A glass orb etched with an impossible alchemical formula
    10. A white gold ring inscribed with one-half of a prophecy
    11. An ivory figurine damaged beyond recognition
    12. A small book of draconic lore and mythology
    13. A small bronze cage with tiny shackles and chains
    14. A jade pawn which was recently given to you by an old soldier
    15. A pendant of blue stone engraved with an arcane symbol
    16. A single cloth glove which smells of strange incense
    17. A dragon's fang engraved with an evil symbol
    18. A snow globe which appears to show your childhood home
    19. A six-sided die carved from dragon bone
    20. A lead actor’s dagger
ART:
  • Linen Choker threaded with platinum thread (25 gp)
    Silk Gown threaded with Gold (100 gp)
    Gold Ring engraved with Dwarven Runes (75 gp)
    Brass Bracer set with Chalcedony (25 gp)
    Cloth Sash trimmed with Lynx Fur (25 gp)
    Pewter Warhammer etched with Draconic Scales (25 gp)
    Dragon Horn Orb engraved with Mythical Imagery (500 gp)
    Portrait of Beautiful Lady (500 gp). Has an advanced scrying spell on it that allows Lady Miessa to observe anything in line of sight of the portrait as well as hear as if she were there in person.
Jessel’s stuff of value:
  • 2300 cp,
    1700 sp,
    3200 gp,
    diamond (50 gp),
    chalcedony (50 gp),
    chrysoprase (50 gp), sardonyx (50 gp),
    zircon (50 gp),
    Potion of Heroism (rare, dmg 188), Zan’s. He’ll use this to protect the others so they can escape if needed. Gains 10 temp hit points, bless spell effects (add d4 to attack rolls and saving throws)
    Boots of Haste, Zan is wearing these. Allows him to cast haste on himself once per day as a bonus action.
    Until the spell ends, the target’s speed is doubled, it gains a +2 bonus to AC, it has advantage on Dexterity saving throws, and it gains an additional action on each of its turns. That action can be used only to take the Attack (one weapon attack only), Dash, Disengage, Hide, or Use an Object action.
    Potion of Superior Healing (rare, dmg 187), Avani has this in a satchel on her person.
    three barrels of vinegar (36 gp, 960 lb),
    a satchel of twenty silver-tipped darts (10 gp, 5 lb),
    a stone basin (1 gp, 20 lb),
    twenty crossbow bolts with silvered tips (20 gp, 2 lb)
Other NPCs
• Skjótr, plague doctor’s name.

Available NPC Names:

Roderick
Lorelei
Grimm
Sarina
Elandra
Thalgrim
Alaric
Helda
Octavian
Alistair
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