Way Off-Topic: Question for RPGamers

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Xenophon
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Re: Way Off-Topic: Question for RPGamers

Post by Xenophon »

Apologies for the long post but I thought the regular participants of this thread might be interested.

First, I’d like to give the biggest thanks and all my appreciation to the numerous informative and entertaining posts in this thread. A special shout out to Honorentheos for your posts around strategies and approaches you used for DMing, especially for new players. That information has been invaluable to me in the last month.

A good friend of mine is absolutely obsessed with Stranger Things. One element that was particularly interesting to her were all the D&D references and connections in season 1 (I’ve only seen the first season myself so I’m not sure if that theme stuck around for later seasons). When I mentioned that I was aware of an officially licensed campaign from the perspective of Will writing for his friends, she knew immediately what she wanted to do for her birthday.

When I say that all the players were new to D&D that really doesn’t fully capture just how out of their comfort zone we were stepping. These are folks who for the most part haven’t played any board games more complex than Monopoly, they don’t play videogames, and they haven’t engaged too much in the fantasy genre… so about as close to blank slates as one can get. In some ways this was nice as there weren’t any real “bad habits”, preconceived notions, or ideas to correct/work around, they basically just accepted my word as DM without question (no pressure, right?). We spent an evening a week or so out over dinner just discussing generalities. We didn’t get too lost in the weeds on rules but tried to talk more about how the game would flow, what the expectations were for them both as individual players and within the larger framework of a party. We talked about my role as DM and some things I would do to help them get into the action a bit quicker. I kept this bit fairly high level as I found that every time I tried to get too granular quite a few sets of eyes would glaze over. They just wanted to get into the murder-hoboing, not talk about the theory of it. This was aided by the campaign coming with enough pre-gens for the group. All decently well geared and level 3 with a solid party mix: Paladin, Bard, Cleric, Ranger, and Wizard. I hadn’t purchased pre-gens like this before, but I was pleased with how they were set up, not too min-maxy and with some extra highlighting on their strengths to help the players understand what they were best at. I created spell sheets for them and pre-assigned spells that I thought would be best given my knowledge of the campaign because any advanced explanations on magic were typically met with blank stares.

The campaign itself was straight forward enough. Sir Tristan has called our merry band back to his kingdom for it is being plagued by a thessalhydra that his guards were unable to fend off. Tristan specifically wanted this crew as they had previously had some success dealing with some bandits for him. Their mission is simple, figure out where the monster was residing, kill it, and return to Sir Tristan with the heads.

The first scene was probably the most difficult for the new players as they were a bit hesitant to jump in with dialogue of their own, but after a little coaxing they started engaging Sir Tristan and some others in the room for more information about their prey. The Bard even attempted to charm some extra rewards out of Tristan but due to some comically bad first rolls (I even tried to course correct them, but the dice weren’t having it) upset him and ended up denying them a few pieces of equipment they might have otherwise been granted. Eventually they had their quest though and enough intel to know that a nearby cave containing a den of troglodytes was likely their best place to start.

On arriving at the cave, the Ranger did his due diligence and sussed out that there were upwards of 20 trogs and an owlbear inside and that the hydra had entered… but not left. They did a great job progressing through the cave, notably my SO even had the foresight to make a map of the caverns, and to my surprise they didn’t instantly engage the troglodytes in combat but instead brokered peace and got additional information about the hyrda and how it entered The Cursed Labyrinth through a portal in said cave. They did also have a hilarious encounter with the owlbear with half the party attempting to tame it for a companion and the other half wanting to finally test their steel. The steel won.

After finishing with the cave, they finally got into the labyrinth which presented them with their hardest challenge of the night, maintaining their sanity while wandering a seemingly endless maze that was actually controlled by dice roll. They were certain they could reason their way out of it and attempted drawing maps, various movement strategies, leaving marks on the walls and a trail of crumbs, and had at least 2 heated exchanges about whether they should split up or not (thankfully they didn’t). Unknown to them of course the paths and encounters in the maze were 100% up to the dice roll, there was a different option for each, and it wasn’t until I had rolled a pre-mapped sequence that they would encounter The Lost Knight who was their ticket out. Not surprisingly they solved his puzzles rather quickly (they’re not gamers but they’re all damn sharp). The first being a riddle the knight gives them as he just escapes from view each time they enter a new room, the answer being that they should stop chasing him and turn around and go back the way they came. The second involving arranging some statues in the order of “Sing a Song of Sixpence”. The Lost Knight then instructs them how to enter The Upside-Down.

As a lesson learned note, I wish I had been able to break this into 2 sessions. This was an excellent stopping point and in hindsight was the beginning of the end of the players attention span. We were about two and a half hours in, and the night was growing late (the drinks had been flowing as well and the party may not have had their full wits about them now). I did ask if they wanted to stop so we could sort out how to continue later but they were persistent that we finish tonight.

From the pre-written campaign the Upside-Down isn’t really much. As DM I just had them retrace their steps to Sir Tristan’s castle, the world being not much more than ruin and desolation with bits and pieces of the Material Plane present. The DM guidebook had a lot of text here about leading them through spooky forests and painting a frightening picture but as noted above we were running low on focus so I began to streamline. Here they met The Proud Princess and they did the first truly unexpected thing. For some reason the Paladin had it in his head that this was an enemy he needed to vanquish and despite some attempts to warn him off I had to hit him with a couple of mighty blows while allowing the princess to shuck all his off before he yielded. After that minor detour she instructs them of a flower that grows both here and in their world. By using blood from a monstrosity one can use this flower to travel between the planes, convenient for the thessalhydra as its own blood is sufficient… less so for our adventurers. The princess does give them a solution though, roaming the land is another monstrosity, a Demogorgon and if they could manage to get its blood they could then travel to their true prey. The princess did try to warn them of the dangers the demogorgon would present and that likely their safest route was to get some blood and then get away from it, but this bit of information didn't stick with them.

They were presented with the option of using their own blood as bait for the creature or tracking it and they choose the latter. The Ranger made a valiant effort at tracking but came up just short on a few rolls which caused them to be surprised by the Demogorgon instead. This fight proved very difficult for our new players. It took them a few rounds to sort out that using fire/acid prevented his natural regen, and the dice weren’t as kind as previous fights (previously the ranger and cleric had seen a string of nat20s that resulted in some serious overconfidence). That coupled with the strong stats on the Demogorgon resulted in an absolute slugfest. Finally, after digging deep into their toolbox and with a few close calls and good saving throws, they came away victorious.

In talking with them afterwards this was there least favorite part of the evening. Up until this point the combat had mostly been easy and they had been left feeling very powerful. Despite having vanquished a much stronger foe (one I hadn't really intended on them killing) they seemed to feel worse afterwards. I’ll chalk this one up to my newbie DM status as I likely didn’t sell it well enough. I think if I had spent some more time presenting this is a very strong enemy and an enormous feat worthy of song, they might have understood it differently. Also, having their first true test of combat so late in the evening may have shifted their judgement on it. Or there might also be some distinction in those that typically seek out games versus those that don’t, maybe the challenge is viewed as less important than racking up lots of wins.

Using the newly acquired blood our party finds themselves at the lair of the thessalhydra. This was supposed to be an area with a few explorable rooms, an extra encounter, and some more loot but due to the previously mentioned time issues we skipped that. After a quick rest for the party, we jumped immediately into the battle. This fight was a good one, although they took some mean blows they ended the fight fairly quickly; 1 part better dice rolls, 1 part more experience with their characters, 1 part a monster more vulnerable to the party. The Cleric (played by the birthday girl) really got to flex here which was a nice ending, her kit being invaluable for quickly toppling this mighty monster.

With the severed heads, they returned victorious to Sir Tristan, collected their gold, and went about their merry way. We discussed that if they wanted to maintain these characters that would have earned them a level up and an opportunity to spend those newly acquired riches, but I don’t see that happening. That said, they did mention this really opened their eyes to a totally different world and there intrigued at what other board or tabletop games might be a better blend of guided adventure with maybe some DMless action so that I could be in their crew... so maybe more updates to come.

My favorite quote from the crew: "So this is just a giant game of '“F” around and find out' but the find out part is up to the dice."
He/Him

“If you consider what are called the virtues in mankind, you will find their growth is assisted by education and cultivation.”
― Xenophon
honorentheos
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Re: Way Off-Topic: Question for RPGamers

Post by honorentheos »

Hey, Xeno

Thanks for sharing your experience! Sounds like a fun time overall with some learning experience in the mix.

It's be interesting to get a sense of what parts of the D&D game they enjoyed most? It may inform the types of collaborative game the group would enjoy as well as potentially offer avenues for tailoring future D&D/RPG sessions to their tastes. My first thought was the Sherlock Holmes Consulting Detective series.

Sherlock Holmes Consulting Detective - The Thames Murders & Other Cases Board Game | Mystery Game for Teens and Adults | Ages 14+ | 1-8 Players | Average Playtime 90 Min. | Made by Space Cowboys https://a.co/d/gBrCYPV

For a group of smart puzzle solvers who want to work together it could be fun. I'm sure Res would have a ton of ideas, too.
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Re: Way Off-Topic: Question for RPGamers

Post by honorentheos »

Xenophon wrote:
Tue Jan 10, 2023 3:10 pm
My favorite quote from the crew: "So this is just a giant game of '“F” around and find out' but the find out part is up to the dice."
😂

Had to separate this out. It's perfect. Though, to be fair, the dice should really be less likely to determine what the "find out" of a damn around "IS" as much as they determine how the "find out" goes down. But it's pretty accurate. Good job, DM!
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Re: Way Off-Topic: Question for RPGamers

Post by Xenophon »

Thanks Honor, it was indeed a blast.

Your game suggestion looks like a good jumping off point but I'll have to do some more research into it. I've done a little follow-up with the group but I had planned some more in depth conversation on it during our next outing. I had planned to dig through a few of the board game threads here for ideas and suggestions and I'll gladly take any input. I'd say they most enjoyed the puzzle and sleuthing pieces. Combat, particularly the more advanced parts, they couldn't have cared less about. If I had just described the fight to them and gotten back to the exploration and dialogue they likely would have liked it even more. They greatly preferred to be engaged in discovering and building on the story; where to go, who to talk to, what to look for, etc..
honorentheos wrote:
Tue Jan 10, 2023 6:11 pm
Had to separate this out. It's perfect. Though, to be fair, the dice should really be less likely to determine what the "find out" of a damn around "IS" as much as they determine how the "find out" goes down. But it's pretty accurate. Good job, DM!
Yeah it tickled me too. And a solid clarification to the point. I was just impressed with how quickly they were able to condense the flow down to a single, relatable sentence. I think I'm going to tuck it away for any future explanations.
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“If you consider what are called the virtues in mankind, you will find their growth is assisted by education and cultivation.”
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Re: Way Off-Topic: Question for RPGamers

Post by Res Ipsa »

Great session report Xeno. It sounds like you were a great DM for the session. Length of session is a tricky issue. I have friends who always play six or seven hour marathon sessions. For me, 2-3 hours is the sweet spot. Given the nature of your group of players, I think pressing on to the end made sense.

Sounds like the game was a blast. I was skeptical of the Stranger Things themed D&D adventure. This is the first session report I've seen (not that I've searched). I'm less skeptical now.
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Re: Way Off-Topic: Question for RPGamers

Post by Res Ipsa »

honorentheos wrote:
Tue Jan 10, 2023 6:10 pm
Hey, Xeno

Thanks for sharing your experience! Sounds like a fun time overall with some learning experience in the mix.

It's be interesting to get a sense of what parts of the D&D game they enjoyed most? It may inform the types of collaborative game the group would enjoy as well as potentially offer avenues for tailoring future D&D/RPG sessions to their tastes. My first thought was the Sherlock Holmes Consulting Detective series.

Sherlock Holmes Consulting Detective - The Thames Murders & Other Cases Board Game | Mystery Game for Teens and Adults | Ages 14+ | 1-8 Players | Average Playtime 90 Min. | Made by Space Cowboys https://a.co/d/gBrCYPV

For a group of smart puzzle solvers who want to work together it could be fun. I'm sure Res would have a ton of ideas, too.
I bought a copy of the original Sherlock Holmes consulting detective back in the day. It came in a three-ring binder. It's the kind of game where having different sets of eyes on the evidence is especially helpful. I've played a few scenarios in the modern version, as well as it's Lovecraft themed version. I have a love-hate relationship with them. I love the process of group problem solving. But I find that the puzzle are often unfairly hard, tying together really disparate information in non-intuitive ways.

For a fun group puzzle solving game, I think the Detective series is much more fun that SHCD. It strikes a nice balance between never having enough time to find all the information you'd like to have and having plenty of time to finish one of many ways of figuring out the answers if you give it some thought.
Here's the webpage: https://detectiveboardgame.com and the BGG page: https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/223 ... board-game

For one shots, I really enjoy the Unlock series. They are pure puzzle solving, like an escape room.
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When I go to sea, don’t fear for me. Fear for the storm.

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Re: Way Off-Topic: Question for RPGamers

Post by Res Ipsa »

honorentheos wrote:
Tue Jan 10, 2023 6:11 pm
Xenophon wrote:
Tue Jan 10, 2023 3:10 pm
My favorite quote from the crew: "So this is just a giant game of '“F” around and find out' but the find out part is up to the dice."
😂

Had to separate this out. It's perfect. Though, to be fair, the dice should really be less likely to determine what the "find out" of a damn around "IS" as much as they determine how the "find out" goes down. But it's pretty accurate. Good job, DM!
Yeah, I loved that. Gonna use that in my next session. "Guess it's find out time."
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Re: Way Off-Topic: Question for RPGamers

Post by Xenophon »

Res Ipsa wrote:
Tue Jan 10, 2023 7:44 pm
Great session report Xeno. It sounds like you were a great DM for the session. Length of session is a tricky issue. I have friends who always play six or seven hour marathon sessions. For me, 2-3 hours is the sweet spot. Given the nature of your group of players, I think pressing on to the end made sense.

Sounds like the game was a blast. I was skeptical of the Stranger Things themed D&D adventure. This is the first session report I've seen (not that I've searched). I'm less skeptical now.
Appreciate that, Res. Although the campaign was fun I will say it is clearly designed for new players and I suspect you'd want to do some additional DM expansion if you were going to make it an engaging campaign for more veteran players. Obviously you could skip the pre-gens and that might spice it more as well.

The kit came with the DM guidebook which was written mostly as if by Will's hand including some "hand drawn" maps and monsters which was a neat little touch. It had lots of parenthetical call-outs to how other characters within the show might have responded in certain scenarios which was also fun. After the session I obviously let the birthday friend have all the materials and she seemed to get a kick out of reading through that. It also had the 5 pre-gens as mentioned, a condensed rulebook with especially abbreviated items/spells/monsters relevant specifically for the campaign, and two demogorgon figurines(one painted, one not). I was able to snag it for about 50 bucks + shipping which I thought was just fine especially since it doubled as a gift but I saw it for much higher prices on places like Amazon ($180!?!?!) and I wouldn't have paid that. Obviously a digital copy would have been much cheaper and if you or your party is REALLY into Stranger Things it might be worthwhile. I'm not much for collectibles myself but the kit seemed of fairly high production quality and a good value.

Thanks for your additional suggestions on the Detective series, I'll have to dive into your links.
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Re: Way Off-Topic: Question for RPGamers

Post by honorentheos »

Your comment about the price surprised me so I went looking into it. Turns out it's out of print now and a bit of a collectors item, too. Your $50 purchase was a steal apparently.

I have the digital version of the adventure through DnD Beyond but hadn't read it. Your game summary inspired me to do so tonight. I thought the adventure had good elements but can see why the Demogorgon fight felt like a downer for the party. It makes the encounters start a matter of luck rather than choice by requiring wisdom perception checks to avoid surprise against a tough foe that can regenerate.

A general DM tip I picked up from someone that i've found very helpful is to avoid being the one who decides to initiate combat. It's served me well and I think it would help with that encounter, too. The adventure starts the prelude out fine by suggesting the PCs can use blood to lure it in, or they can try to stalk it. But it asserts the Demogorgon is going to attack immediately and likely with surprise. I'd opt to take the players choices on how they approach finding it to give them options for deciding if/when to attack as the default. Surprise ambushes work best overall when the players know they made a choice that puts their PCs at risk so the choice to go to combat was still made by them when they elected to make that choice.

I can see a few ideas out of the adventure could be useful to borrow, too. I liked the cursed maze. The lost knight isn't my taste but not essential to the concept.

I'd also avoid throwing the numbers of trogs at a level 3 party it suggests as possible early on. 8 troglodytes can overpower an inexperienced party. Its good it suggests the troglodytes aren't immediately hostile but a new DM might not realize how quickly a combat with 8 foes with multiattacks can do serious damage even for a level 3 party fighting CR 1/4 monsters.

Good times!
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Re: Way Off-Topic: Question for RPGamers

Post by Xenophon »

Thanks for taking that look honor. Yeah after looking around at other physical copies I'm pleased with where I ended up.
honorentheos wrote:
Wed Jan 11, 2023 5:06 am
A general DM tip I picked up from someone that i've found very helpful is to avoid being the one who decides to initiate combat.
Good advice. I suspect that the sequence as laid out in the book was more for pairing the scene up with the show but you're right I probably should have taken further creative liberties here.

As to the trogs, I won't lie I did a bit of leading through their early NPC encounters to get the party predisposed to not engaging them directly. Generically they were approaching everything with a pacifist/negotiators bent so I wasn't too worried about them but I can definitely see your point.

The labyrinth layout was interesting and I could see recycling it. As newbies they never picked up on the random nature of it but i suspect some more experienced players might meta it out so I can't promise the near mutiny that occurred but it could be fun regardless. Just swap up the random encounters to better reflect the campaign and your specific party and you've likely got a strong mechanic.
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“If you consider what are called the virtues in mankind, you will find their growth is assisted by education and cultivation.”
― Xenophon
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