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Hi Kishkumen -

Could you explain the full meaning of your signature? I'm very interested. Thanks!

Hey, honor.

It means, "to be and to do rather than seem." It is an aspirational motto that I have been mulling over lately. There is a lot of seeming in our culture these days, but the being and the doing are often neglected.

Thanks, Kish.

Seems like a worthwhile aspiration to me.

Kishkumen wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 27, 2020 4:09 pm

Hey, honor.

It means, "to be and to do rather than seem." It is an aspirational motto that I have been mulling over lately. There is a lot of seeming in our culture these days, but the being and the doing are often neglected.

Hi Kish,

I appreciate the idea behind it alot. I'd googled the phrase after seeing your signature and it seemed the "et facere" might have been something you added given the common hits all excluded it, but then it's just as possible that it may have been the more true-to-original saying. I haven't spent nearly as much time reading Cicero, and lack the Latin to do so in the original. Marcus and Seneca have been my main go tos over the last couple of years but perhaps it's time to read more of his writings.

Some years ago when I was just finishing college I sat in an open evening panel discussion between a number of professors in the softer sciences. It included sociologists, anthropologists, a philosophy professor and I believe an archeologist, maybe a few others interested in the questions related what it means to be human. As it progressed, the panel members converged on the discussion of there being an authenticity famine in modern consumption culture. It struck me as I was just beginning to grapple with the worldview challenges that come with doubting the LDS church's claims, and a real sense of insecurity that came from doubting the very ground one's life was built upon. I came away from the panel discussion with no clear answers, but also with a germ of an idea that what I was looking for was how to be authentic and self-realized.

To date that's primarily yielded the belief in being a consistent, dedicated practitioner with no expectation beyond said dedication, and in the need to be discriminating in what I pursue given there are only so many hours in a day that require real work to create substance.

I also wonder about how the authentic person deals with both praise and criticism. The later seems to me to be necessary for progress and an invaluable tool if one can approach it dispassionately. But praise...I don't know. The best I've come up with is to try and accept it while deflecting as much as possible onto the countless others it takes to achieve anything meaningful. But it has also meant practicing a bit of zen stoicism because inevitably our culture expects payment in praise and reciprocity in kind. Since that rarely feels authentic but instead more like an ego inflation pyramid scheme, I struggle with it.

Anyway, thank you for the Latin expression. It's a timely reminder and much appreciated.

Thank you for initiating this topic, Honor.

.

Kishkumen wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 27, 2020 4:09 pm

It means, "to be and to do rather than seem." It is an aspirational motto that I have been mulling over lately. There is a lot of seeming in our culture these days, but the being and the doing are often neglected.

I like this, Reverend.

I have hanging in my studio a like-minded Louise Bourgeois quote: “I am not what I am, I am what I do with my hands”.

.

DrW wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 27, 2020 4:49 pm

Thanks, Kish.

Seems like a worthwhile aspiration to me.

Thank you, DrW!

honorentheos wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 27, 2020 5:20 pm

Hi Kish,

I appreciate the idea behind it alot. I'd googled the phrase after seeing your signature and it seemed the "et facere" might have been something you added given the common hits all excluded it, but then it's just as possible that it may have been the more true-to-original saying. I haven't spent nearly as much time reading Cicero, and lack the Latin to do so in the original. Marcus and Seneca have been my main go tos over the last couple of years but perhaps it's time to read more of his writings.

Some years ago when I was just finishing college I sat in an open evening panel discussion between a number of professors in the softer sciences. It included sociologists, anthropologists, a philosophy professor and I believe an archeologist, maybe a few others interested in the questions related what it means to be human. As it progressed, the panel members converged on the discussion of there being an authenticity famine in modern consumption culture. It struck me as I was just beginning to grapple with the worldview challenges that come with doubting the LDS church's claims, and a real sense of insecurity that came from doubting the very ground one's life was built upon. I came away from the panel discussion with no clear answers, but also with a germ of an idea that what I was looking for was how to be authentic and self-realized.

To date that's primarily yielded the belief in being a consistent, dedicated practitioner with no expectation beyond said dedication, and in the need to be discriminating in what I pursue given there are only so many hours in a day that require real work to create substance.

I also wonder about how the authentic person deals with both praise and criticism. The later seems to me to be necessary for progress and an invaluable tool if one can approach it dispassionately. But praise...I don't know. The best I've come up with is to try and accept it while deflecting as much as possible onto the countless others it takes to achieve anything meaningful. But it has also meant practicing a bit of zen stoicism because inevitably our culture expects payment in praise and reciprocity in kind. Since that rarely feels authentic but instead more like an ego inflation pyramid scheme, I struggle with it.

Anyway, thank you for the Latin expression. It's a timely reminder and much appreciated.

Greetings, honor:

I am glad you like it. I wrote it at the end of a reflection on the past year and its problems. After I wrote it, I looked it up and noticed that there was a university motto much like it but, as you noticed, without "et facere." I must have faintly recalled the existing motto when I came up with my version. I seriously doubt that I was completely original. But, of course, appearing original is not the point. If it is worthwhile, it is probably not original, and it doesn't really matter anyway. I have observed your encounter with stoicism from afar, to the extent that I can observe it as you live it.

I think I understand what you are saying with praise and criticism. I have been uncomfortable with both. The latter is perhaps less treacherous than the former. Still, it is possible for both to be off the mark in their own way. It often comes down to timing and clarity of vision. I will pay closer attention to criticism usually. Being uncomfortable is often a better state than complacence. I find myself being too self satisfied at times.

That said, when I added "et facere" I did so because I have thought that doing what needs to be done as a member of a hopefully functional society is as important or perhaps even more important than how I feel about who I am. We need more people who do the boring things that no one wants to do because so many people are out to get attention or be the hero of their own dramatic adventure. We have so thoroughly lost our grasp on the difference between being a useful person and being an attention-grabbing person that everything is falling down around us while we assure ourselves that we "are" good people, or exciting people, vel sim.

Anyhow, those were some of the thoughts running through my mind at the time, and I will continue to think about them, as I do the dishes, tidy up, help out with my kids, mow the lawn, and do other errands.

Best,

K

Morley wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 27, 2020 5:29 pm

I like this, Reverend.

I have hanging in my studio a like-minded Louise Bourgeois quote: “I am not what I am, I am what I do with my hands”.

.

That's it! Love it. Yes, I need to think along those lines, and act along those lines, much more often than I in fact do.