Builders Forum

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Jersey Girl
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Re: Builders Forum

Post by Jersey Girl »

Some Schmo wrote:
Mon Dec 28, 2020 11:19 pm
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Mon Dec 28, 2020 9:30 pm
This is so cool. It gives you a great reality check on the extensive coordination and costs required to get a home built.
Yeah, I've got to second this. I've been considering building a house, so I appreciate the great information.

I suspect there's some regional variance in the prices, but the breakdown is what's great here. Thanks for this, dantana.
Just know that the prices will vary during the planning process and something could jump up and change the entire plan. Example, our home started out with hand drawn plans that I made myself. I had the configuration of each room upstairs and downstairs (stack your plumbing wherever possible, it's cheaper) right on down to the square footage and it was supposed to be a nice log home using 12 inch logs. Right? Right?

Yeah right.

By the time the blueprints were drawn up (took 3 revisions because the architect kept putting in stuff I never asked for) and we started pricing it out, some darn thing happened in the logging industry in the Pacific Northwest concerning an owl or some such thing, and drove up the cost to the point where we couldn't use the 12 inch logs so we bagged the idea and went for rustic cedar siding.

We also had to make certain trade offs in design to bring the cost of the house into range so that we could cash flow the whole build. Example: We were supposed to have a detached garage. We compromised to bring down the cost by attaching the garage and thus eliminating one exterior wall which costs more than interior walls. We also had to toss the idea of the JennAir range which was very popular at the time. The one thing I never traded off the plan was the floor to ceiling rock fireplace though I did learn that manufactured stone is less expensive than authentic stone, puts less stress on the construction, and so I went with that.

We didn't anticipate delays. They dug the hole in September. That September we started getting monsoon rains that kept filling up the hole. They had to pump the hole in order to pour the foundation. We ended up moving into the house during a December blizzard. :shock:

Someone mentioned slopes and retaining walls. I picked out the placement of the house based on the removal of as few trees as possible. We live in a forest on what they call here a "cold lot" because it was heavily treed so I wanted the house built towards the back where there was one of two clearings. On account of that, we built on a slope. Yes, there is a retaining wall, but the good thing is that we squeezed a garden level basement out of the deal so that the basement is well lit.

If you are building (and I'm writing this for anyone who might be going through this thread, not Schmo in particular) be sure to visit the construction site at least weekly. Here comes another story. Remember the rustic cedar siding? I went out to the house by myself one day and when I walked around the back I noticed that the sub contractor's crew had started PAINTING THE SIDING DARK BROWN when the plan called for semi transparent redwood naturaltone off in the future after the first summer. :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o

I called the realtor first because (remember this is Jersey whose life is like Murphy's Law in action) our Gen Con was out of town. He had gone home to Oregon because his Dad was crushed and killed by a tree he was cutting down. (This is true, I am not making this up). So the realtor went out to look at it and said it was a "nice buffy brown" where upon I raised hell and he directed the subcontractor to remove the paint, the siding if needed, and give me what I signed off on because I had the specs right in my hot little hand and I was going to get what I planned and paid for.

The most stressful part of the whole process was the day I picked out all of the interior design stuff. The exterior and interior lights, the light switches, light switch covers, the floor coverings, the cabinets, the showers, the sinks, the tubs, the---->on and on and on and on and on...until your mind starts to fuzz over and I had to do it in one four hour meeting. But I did it! Just look at the home you are living in right now and go through one room...notice all the small things like sinks, faucets, overhead lighting, all the switches and covers and then consider the whole home and how many of those items are in the whole house. Basically strip down the whole room down to dry wall and then start adding back all those small things...that is what you end up doing when you build or at least what we ended up doing with the interior design place. Looking back I don't know why we had to pick out the plumbing fixtures and light fixtures with the interior designer but I think that was to determine the interior design budget and keep it in line with the overall budget.

In spite of all the things I mentioned and what I haven't mentioned, I loved seeing our home go from sketch pad to reality. If I could have my way, I would design and build a new home every month and never get tired of it.
We only get stronger when we are lifting something that is heavier than what we are used to. ~ KF

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dantana
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Re: Builders Forum

Post by dantana »

Some Schmo wrote:
Mon Dec 28, 2020 11:19 pm
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Mon Dec 28, 2020 9:30 pm
This is so cool. It gives you a great reality check on the extensive coordination and costs required to get a home built.
Yeah, I've got to second this. I've been considering building a house, so I appreciate the great information.

I suspect there's some regional variance in the prices, but the breakdown is what's great here. Thanks for this, dantana.
Thanks guys. I guess one of my favorite peeves is seeing good people getting ripped off by shady contractors. The worst offenders are the re- roofing, siding, windows companies. Example; my son's wife got a flier in the mail, scheduled a meeting for estimate...$10k for re-window install. I'm glad they checked in with me first, as I called a local Milgard supplier, had the windows delivered to the house, we installed them on a Saturday. $3500. 14 man hours.

edit add, I looked back through my e-mails and found the invoice. $3500, not $2500.
Last edited by dantana on Tue Dec 29, 2020 2:13 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Jersey Girl
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Re: Builders Forum

Post by Jersey Girl »

dantana wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 1:45 am
Some Schmo wrote:
Mon Dec 28, 2020 11:19 pm

Yeah, I've got to second this. I've been considering building a house, so I appreciate the great information.

I suspect there's some regional variance in the prices, but the breakdown is what's great here. Thanks for this, dantana.
Thanks guys. I guess one of my favorite peeves is seeing good people getting ripped off by shady contractors. The worst offenders are the re- roofing, siding, windows companies. Example; my son's wife got a flier in the mail, scheduled a meeting for estimate...$10k for re-window install. I'm glad they checked in with me first, as I called a local Milgard supplier, had the windows delivered to the house, we installed them on a Saturday. $2500.
What kind of windows would you recommend these days? Our house is a mountain chalet style built approx. 30 years ago, rustic cedar siding, 12/12 pitch roof--so you get the idea of the look of it. We couldn't afford a casement window package at the time so settled for now out-of-business Oldach Tiltmasters that I think could use replacement by now. Funny, when we built and the inspectors came through, one man looked at our windows and said they wouldn't last 10 years. :roll: danata we also have some custom built windows in front. Two large rectangles with trapezoids on top with a floor-to-ceiling fireplace in between, 15ft cathedral ceiling. I don't know how to replace the custom built windows and I don't know what product is preferable to replace the Tiltmasters. And how do you get the custom built windows to match the commercial products? I don't know who to deal with on the rectangles and traps, AND the more traditional windows without getting ripped off for life.

Any ideas? Advice?
We only get stronger when we are lifting something that is heavier than what we are used to. ~ KF

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dantana
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Re: Builders Forum

Post by dantana »

Jersey Girl wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 2:09 am
dantana wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 1:45 am


Thanks guys. I guess one of my favorite peeves is seeing good people getting ripped off by shady contractors. The worst offenders are the re- roofing, siding, windows companies. Example; my son's wife got a flier in the mail, scheduled a meeting for estimate...$10k for re-window install. I'm glad they checked in with me first, as I called a local Milgard supplier, had the windows delivered to the house, we installed them on a Saturday. $2500.
What kind of windows would you recommend these days? Our house is a mountain chalet style built approx. 30 years ago, rustic cedar siding, 12/12 pitch roof--so you get the idea of the look of it. We couldn't afford a casement window package at the time so settled for now out-of-business Oldach Tiltmasters that I think could use replacement by now. Funny, when we built and the inspectors came through, one man looked at our windows and said they wouldn't last 10 years. :roll: danata we also have some custom built windows in front. Two large rectangles with trapezoids on top with a floor-to-ceiling fireplace in between, 15ft cathedral ceiling. I don't know how to replace the custom built windows and I don't know what product is preferable to replace the Tiltmasters. And how do you get the custom built windows to match the commercial products? I don't know who to deal with on the rectangles and traps, AND the more traditional windows without getting ripped off for life.

Any ideas? Advice?
I will work on a more detailed response for this Jersey Girl., Briefly though, most vinyl window suppliers like Milgard charge by glass area, so custom sizes aren't really any more expensive than stock sizes. Also, they build exactly precisely any specific size you request of them, including odd shapes. Sometimes a paper template to supply to the agent is acceptable practice.
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Jersey Girl
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Re: Builders Forum

Post by Jersey Girl »

So...vinyl is the best product these days? I'm worried about being ripped off, of course. Yes, if you find time to address it, please do.
We only get stronger when we are lifting something that is heavier than what we are used to. ~ KF

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Re: Builders Forum

Post by canpakes »

Jersey Girl wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 12:09 am

Someone mentioned slopes and retaining walls.
That would’ve been me. I would love to incorporate natural slope into a future home design, even though it would increase cost by quite a bit. And I can’t stamp retaining wall designs as I’m not a licensed LA. Probably never will be, either, but that’s not necessarily a problem.

SO has already roughly designed one house and works with creating photorealistic architectural and interior renders. We have CAD and Revit available to get a start on a design, as we use both programs for our work. But we have a different financial focus at the moment with the kids, so entering Dantanaland will have to wait a while.

We are also encouraged with what is available from prefabrication venders. Some companies, like Marmol Radziner, have been around for a while and cater to a specific modernist aesthetic, but newer companies round out a full range of styles (Ecohome, Method, Trinity - and lots of others).
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Re: Builders Forum

Post by subgenius »

dantana wrote:
Fri Dec 25, 2020 8:27 pm
...

Framing: I spent the 1990's as a framing sub. Back then the going rate was $2 - $5 per sq ft. These days it's closer to $8 - $15. 1750 sq ft x $10 = $17,500. I had approx 130 mhs. $17,500/130 = $134. per hr.

Framing lumber, approx. $18,000. Trusses approx. $7,500.

...
I do not think you can understate the cost of lumber today. The trade war with Canada, etc. has driven the price of lumber up in meaningful portions. This is even impacting commercial construction both from a cost and availability perspective.
Are you seeing a similar impact in your residential niche?
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Re: Builders Forum

Post by dantana »

Jersey Girl wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 3:07 am
So...vinyl is the best product these days? I'm worried about being ripped off, of course. Yes, if you find time to address it, please do.
I think this is a pretty good article Jersey Girl. My personal choice is vinyl Milgard. They offer a lifetime warranty on the entire window. For the most part, companies get their glass from the same place, and since the differences in heat loss values, etc. between companies is minimal, it comes down to who makes the best frames and mechanics. https://www.thisoldhouse.com/windows/21 ... or-windows
Last edited by dantana on Tue Dec 29, 2020 7:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Builders Forum

Post by dantana »

subgenius wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 4:45 pm

I do not think you can understate the cost of lumber today. The trade war with Canada,etc has driven the price of lumber up in meaningful portions. This is even impacting commercial construction both from a cost and availability perspective.
Are you seeing a similar impact in your residential niche?
Yeah. You know, I hadn't really been paying attention to it. I'm seeing a 10' 2x6 at my local HD listed at $10.57 right now, which converts to $1057 per thousand board feet. Ouch. The lumber for the OP house was bought in Feb of 2020. Looks like lmbr. was around $350 back then. Lmbr. prices ebb and flow. I am not informed enough to form an opinion as what is the particular cause this time. Here is a tracking chart. Image

I think I've seen it said on here you work in the building industry. Engineering? Architecture? What is your game Sg?

Also:https://nahbnow.com/2020/12/lumber-pric ... ise-again/
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Re: Builders Forum

Post by dantana »

Jersey Girl wrote:
Mon Dec 28, 2020 11:34 pm
dantana unless I missed it, I don't see a total cost per sq ft for the 1750 sq ft home. What's a typical stick home going for these days per sq ft?
I don't build custom homes so I don't have that number to provide. I only know what my hard costs are. Also, there are a lot of variables. Hiline, et.al. construction projects do not include permits, Excavation, utility hook-ups.

If one goes back to that Hiline homes catalogue, I see plan 1664 listed @$155k. Built in city limits: permit, $22k. Excavation, $2k. Sewer hook-up, $3k. Water hookup, $3k Power hook-up, $3k. Total = $188k. $188k/1664 sq. ft. = $113 per sq. ft.

In the county: Permit $7500. Excavation, $2k. Septic, $10k. Well, $8k (100 ft. deep) Power, 3k.
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