Challenge to Ajax and Subgenius

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Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: Challenge to Ajax and Subgenius

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ajax18 wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 1:23 pm
Jacob Blake’s claims would also, almost certainly, be challenged based on allegations of his prior conduct
because, in 2010, Jacob Blake was alleged to have attacked a police officer with a knife while
resisting police.
According to a report from the Cook County Sheriff’s Police Department, on August 5, 2010
at 12:40 am in Des Plaines, IL, Jacob Blake was in a vehicle that had been stopped by the
Cook County Sheriff’s Police Department. There were three occupants in the vehicle
including Jacob Blake. During the traffic stop, Jacob Blake and the other passenger exited
the vehicle and approached the officer who had conducted the traffic stop, Officer Murphy.
Officer Murphy ordered Jacob Blake and the other passenger to get back inside the vehicle,
but they refused. Officer Murphy drew his weapon and Jacob Blake and the passenger
retreated back inside the vehicle as backup arrived. After the backup officer arrived, Jacob
Blake again exited the vehicle. Both officers attempted to secure Jacob Blake and a struggle
ensued. Jacob Blake became combative and attempted to resist. As one of the officers
struggled to maintain control of Jacob Blake’s right hand, Jacob Blake reached near his
waistline with his left hand and produced a buck knife with a three inch blade with the blade
open. Jacob Blake then slashed at the officer with the knife across the chest without making
contact as the officer jumped back shouting, “knife, knife, knife,” to alert Officer Murphy. Both
officers moved back and unholstered their firearms. Jacob Blake began to wave the knife
around in a slashing motion with the knife in his right hand. Jacob Blake advanced towards
the officers while shouting, “Come on and shoot me then.” More officers arrived and one of
the arriving officers gave Jacob Blake verbal commands to drop the knife. Jacob Blake
refused to drop the knife and was subsequently tased. Even after being tased, Jacob Blake
actively resisted as officers attempted to place him in custody. Jacob Blake was tased again
and the officers were able to take him into custody.
Thanks for the quote DocCam. I had never heard this part before.

Let me ask you this DocCam. In your opinion should Officer Rusty Sheskey still be on the job as a policeman?
Of course. He wasn’t charged with anything, and his bosses think he acted iaw his training. That said, it sucks JB set up the circumstances of his shooting, and eventually provoked an officer into shooting him (it appears he’s had this ideation for quite a while).

- Doc
Hugh Nibley claimed he bumped into Adolf Hitler, Albert Einstein, Winston Churchill, Gertrude Stein, and the Grand Duke Vladimir Romanoff. Dishonesty is baked into Mormonism.
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ajax18
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Re: Challenge to Ajax and Subgenius

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Of course. He wasn’t charged with anything, and his bosses think he acted iaw his training. That said, it sucks JB set up the circumstances of his shooting, and eventually provoked an officer into shooting him (it appears he’s had this ideation for quite a while).

- Doc
But you just said in the thread above that shooting Blake 7 times in the back was questionable at best? I understood that to mean you thought Officer Rusty Sheskey acted with excessive force. We both would agree that Officer Sheskey shouldn't be in jail but I thought you would say that he shouldn't be in law enforcement anymore? How am I reading your position wrong?
And when the Confederates saw Jackson standing fearless like a stonewall, the army of Northern Virginia took courage and drove the federal army off their land.
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Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: Challenge to Ajax and Subgenius

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ajax18 wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 2:45 pm
Of course. He wasn’t charged with anything, and his bosses think he acted iaw his training. That said, it sucks JB set up the circumstances of his shooting, and eventually provoked an officer into shooting him (it appears he’s had this ideation for quite a while).

- Doc
But you just said in the thread above that shooting Blake 7 times in the back was questionable at best? I understood that to mean you thought Officer Rusty Sheskey acted with excessive force. We both would agree that Officer Sheskey shouldn't be in jail but I thought you would say that he shouldn't be in law enforcement anymore? How am I reading your position wrong?
I do think his use of force was excessive. I didn’t state he shouldn’t be in law enforcement (LE) anymore. If his bosses, and his municipality think he acted within the legal limits of the power given to him then he has a right to continue his employment. The municipality is willing to assume the risk of his continued employment, and after reading the 87-page report I understand why and agree with their assessment. In other words, I can hold two ‘kind of opposing’ thoughts at the same time - he was excessive and the circumstances justify his use of force - so that taking in all the facts, the officer’s history, and the department’s approach to LE (policy and training) I don’t believe the officer was so negligent in his use of force that he should be fired.

I don’t have to like or agree with that particular municipality’s approach to LE to understand that within their system the officer acted lawfully, and therefore he has a right to continued employment. Transitioning to the broader topic of LE in our country I’d prefer a gentler approach, but a firmer stance with regard to public safety. What I mean by that is I think there ought to be a mechanism in place that keeps violent, suicidal, habitual offenders in an environment that focuses on rehabilitation before we release them back into society where, if left untreated, they then repeat their antisocial behavior, often with incremental escalations. Clearly what we’ve been doing isn’t working.

There are a few options that we humans used in the past:

1) We can go completely totalitarian and just execute our human detritus, which isn’t going to happen if we’re being honest with ourselves.

2) We can go completely totalitarian and lock them away in gulags forever, which to me is worse than just shooting them. This isn’t going to happen.

3) We can keep our current system which is producing humans that are beyond reintegration. I consider this a political and social failure that, if left unchanged or poorly adjusted, is allowing a cancer to metastasize. This will not end well.

Or. We can:

4) Assess best practices by countries with more or less successful approaches to criminality and rehabilitation so we increase the overall safety of the body politic. Pragmatically speaking I think this is the approach we have to take if we want to keep our Republic intact.

- Doc
Hugh Nibley claimed he bumped into Adolf Hitler, Albert Einstein, Winston Churchill, Gertrude Stein, and the Grand Duke Vladimir Romanoff. Dishonesty is baked into Mormonism.
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Re: Challenge to Ajax and Subgenius

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What I mean by that is I think there ought to be a mechanism in place that keeps violent, suicidal, habitual offenders in an environment that focuses on rehabilitation before we release them back into society where, if left untreated, they then repeat their antisocial behavior, often with incremental escalations.
The purpose of which would be more focused on rehabilitation and protecting society, than vengeance, right? I think we could agree on that.

I personally question why Rusty Sheskey doesn't look for another job. I'd never do that job and I'd certainly never allow my son to go into law enforcement. Maybe it's just the best paying job some folks can get in life. But to constantly be thrown into violent situations as a white man amongst nonwhite criminals and always be under the microscope of the mainstream media in how you could have better protected society while keeping the criminals and their supporters happy as well is a fool's errand. I doubt any slain police officer's family gets a tenth of what George Floyd's family got.
And when the Confederates saw Jackson standing fearless like a stonewall, the army of Northern Virginia took courage and drove the federal army off their land.
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Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: Challenge to Ajax and Subgenius

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ajax18 wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 5:39 pm
What I mean by that is I think there ought to be a mechanism in place that keeps violent, suicidal, habitual offenders in an environment that focuses on rehabilitation before we release them back into society where, if left untreated, they then repeat their antisocial behavior, often with incremental escalations.
The purpose of which would be more focused on rehabilitation and protecting society, than vengeance, right? I think we could agree on that.

I personally question why Rusty Sheskey doesn't look for another job. I'd never do that job and I'd certainly never allow my son to go into law enforcement. Maybe it's just the best paying job some folks can get in life. But to constantly be thrown into violent situations as a white man amongst nonwhite criminals and always be under the microscope of the mainstream media in how you could have better protected society while keeping the criminals and their supporters happy as well is a fool's errand. I doubt any slain police officer's family gets a tenth of what George Floyd's family got.
Yeah, it’d be about untangling their crap, if they’re even capable of it at that point, and then hopefully get them into the right process where they could feel a sense of hope to the point living a normal life is the desirable option.

And I agree with with regard to a career in LE. I wouldn’t do it, and I certainly would discourage anyone I know from doing it. The cost-benefit ratio is out of whack.

- Doc
Hugh Nibley claimed he bumped into Adolf Hitler, Albert Einstein, Winston Churchill, Gertrude Stein, and the Grand Duke Vladimir Romanoff. Dishonesty is baked into Mormonism.
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Re: Challenge to Ajax and Subgenius

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Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 6:08 pm
... with regard to a career in law enforcement. I wouldn’t do it, and I certainly would discourage anyone I know from doing it. The cost-benefit ratio is out of whack.
I suspect that a careful investigation might show that it is one of those things that often has a strong element of family tradition.
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