SHADES! Wishing DEATH violates our rules, right?

[honorentheos]

While extreme, the sentiment is exactly who "we" are. I've presented my view multiple times that just opposing Trump doesn't make many of the things that get said in that cause right.

What I said to Ajax in another thread was written with many posters in mind.

What are those higher principles to you exactly?

Right now I think you see American politics sitting on a single axis. One side is the side you occupy, the other side contains the opposition. And most of us recognize this same axis exists. We can use whatever terms one wishes to define them - left and right, liberal and conservative, Democrat and Republican. You may see it being shifted and only include those who support Donald Trump and those who don't. You're not the only one who does this, and I've made the case on this board multiple times there is a problem with some who identify as occupying the other side from you as focusing on the single axis of political identity.

But what I comment on above requires seeing things with at least a second axis that makes quadrants rather than sides. This other axis I would describe as democratic and undemocratic, with a small "d". And there are people who identify as being on the same side of the left/right line you might identify yourself as occupying that you recognize don't share your position and even seem opposed to it. People like Mitt Romney for example, or the Governor and AG of Georgia, or the many conservative judges who ruled against the claims Trump's campaign filed in an attempt to undermine the results of a democratic election and install the losing incumbent as President.

And that's where I think you are not seeing this as it really is because to assume only one axis is a bit like trying to comprehend a 3D world from a 2D only perspective.

Some of the most heroic people the last few months were on the conservative/right side of that particular axis. It takes courage, and a commitment to democracy, to the principles on which our nation was founded to stand up in defense of those principles when one's party loyalty is being harshly questioned. And just because a person is on the right side of seeing what Trump did as being a threat to our democracy doesn't mean they are on the pro-democracy side of the other axis. Being on that side includes principled beliefs such as a belief in due process, in the sanctity of democratic institutions, in the idea that the results of an election ought to be honored even when one doesn't like those results.

The old, perhaps overused line from Nietzsche regarding the hazards of staring into the abyss too long comes to mind when it shows up. And it shows up more and more in different forms.

What they all share is a disregard for base values of respect, decency, and the importance of democratic processes even when one doesn't care for the outcome. Whether that be an election or due process, to shrugging off restraint when the crowd rushes forward to attack having already dispatched judgment, the political position is irrelevant when it comes to the long term harm to society it causes.

This corrosion of our national values is perhaps the most dangerous aspect of Trump's legacy.

[Chap]

While extreme, the sentiment is exactly who "we" are.

As Sam Goldwyn never said "Include me out".

[honorentheos]

While extreme, the sentiment is exactly who "we" are.

As Sam Goldwyn never said "Include me out".

Much like those who supported Trump but were shocked with the violence on Epiphany?

[Chap]

While extreme, the sentiment is exactly who "we" are.

As Sam Goldwyn never said "Include me out".

Much like those who supported Trump but were shocked with the violence on Epiphany?

You get to define what "we" you belong to. You don't get to define who else belongs in it.

[honorentheos]

As Sam Goldwyn never said "Include me out".

Much like those who supported Trump but were shocked with the violence on Epiphany?

You get to define what "we" you belong to. You don't get to define who else belongs in it.

It was antifa all along...

You can speak up when the values are being shoved aside early on, or feign being scandalized when the results finally cross the threshold where you no longer see yourself in that category. That someone took it too far in your opinion is not an excuse.

"The thugs who attacked the Capital don't represent us and should be punished!" Sure, Mitch McConnell.

[Lem]

You get to define what "we" you belong to. You don't get to define who else belongs in it.

It was antifa all along...

You can speak up when the values are being shoved aside early on, or feign being scandalized when the results finally cross the threshold where you no longer see yourself in that category. That someone took it too far in your opinion is not an excuse.

"The thugs who attacked the Capital don't represent us and should be punished!" Sure, Mitch McConnell.

I did speak up. I spoke up when Smoky was here, when the troll drove grindael away, when faqs went too far. Shades finally moved Smoky's stuff, but in other cases I was told by some that my objections were not helping, a troll was given a jubilee, and a troll also managed to convince mods that calling him a troll was a deletable offense. I learned quite a bit about trolling in the process. In my opinion, Ajax and sub continue to post as they do only because they continue to coax interactions out of people and get attention. At the moment, the academic research leans toward stronger and more careful moderation as the only long term solution, but we don't have that.

My post here has nothing to do with the trolling, however, because Shades has been clear that he will allow that, as much as he possibly can. I suspect he does it because he thinks the 'entertainment value' is worth it. I disagree, but that battle clearly is over.

My thread here concerns only and exactly what I said in my OP. Wishing death on another human being violates our rules and such comments should be deleted.

[Icarus]

Really? If you tell somebody to die, you are telling them to quit the entire scene of human activity. That clearly includes this board. And you are not allowed to tell people to quit this board. Period. It's not a stretch, it's just blindingly obvious.

If you can think of a way to avoid that implication, please state it.

So on the one hand you have one poster supporting the murder of perceived tyrants in Washington, and then you have me hoping that person be taken by his God sooner rather than later.

You told him to die:

Better yet, just die already.

If that isn't disinviting ...

What are you some kind of atheist? He could die and still be with us in spirit.

[Icarus]

As Sam Goldwyn never said "Include me out".

Much like those who supported Trump but were shocked with the violence on Epiphany?

You get to define what "we" you belong to. You don't get to define who else belongs in it.

Exactly. Ajax is every bit part of the "we" of this forum as am I. If you guys want to lobby to have me excommunicated over a devout Nazi, well I'm not here to argue as in my view that says far more about you and the "we" of this forum than anything I've said or done.

[honorentheos]

My thread here concerns only and exactly what I said in my OP. Wishing death on another human being violates our rules and such comments should be deleted.

And I argue it is a natural extension of dehumanizing people with whom one disagrees politically. You may feel this is the time to speak out. I argue that time was long before one reaches this point and to protest is much like one sees many on the right distancing themselves from the extreme activities from January 6th and other talk.

If a person claims they only argue that the 2020 election was fraudulent and nothing more, is that a defense against those who take those claims and act on them through violence and sedition?

But someone might say, "The fraud claim is a lie while calling all people who voted for Trump racists and no longer deserving even the barest common courtesy is factual." I can no more support the claim gross stereotyping of a class of people is not dehumanizing as I could Biden is a pedophile Chinese plant waiting to turn the US into a socialist satellite of Beijing. Both are diversions from addressing reality. Both corrode our social contracts. Both progress to points those who might never mean harm will find themselves claiming, "But that isn't us!" eventually.

If the attitudes and beliefs that lead there ARE who we are, then so are the distasteful fruits they produce.

[Lem]

My thread here concerns only and exactly what I said in my OP. Wishing death on another human being violates our rules and such comments should be deleted.

And I argue it is a natural extension of dehumanizing people with whom one disagrees politically. You may feel this is the time to speak out. I argue that time was long before one reaches this point and to protest is much like one sees many on the right distancing themselves from the extreme activities from January 6th and other talk.

If a person claims they only argue that the 2020 election was fraudulent and nothing more, is that a defense against those who take those claims and act on them through violence and sedition?

But someone might say, "The fraud claim is a lie while calling all people who voted for Trump racists and no longer deserving even the barest common courtesy is factual." I can no more support the claim gross stereotyping of a class of people is not dehumanizing as I could Biden is a pedophile Chinese plant waiting to turn the US into a socialist satellite of Beijing. Both are diversions from addressing reality.

I'm not making a political argument. I am stating that wishing death on another person is inappropriate language within our forum. I made a report the first time I saw it, a couple months ago, and I saw it again, made a report again, but in light of our moderation problem, thought it merited a post.

So to reiterate, the point of this thread is to talk about whether 'wishing death' on a poster is appropriate language. I can see that you see a larger topic within, so please, start your own thread about that. I will enjoy reading it, as I value your opinions.