Cutting down *all* the trees in your yard

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canpakes
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Re: Cutting down *all* the trees in your yard

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msnobody wrote:
Sat Jan 30, 2021 9:35 pm
Can someone tell me what possesses someone to cut down *all* the trees in their yard?
Satan.

But, seriously, This sort of emphasis on ’leaf litter’ seems odd to me. When we lived in Phoenix, we couldn’t understand why folks generally didn’t plant trees in a place where unshaded temperatures ran above 100 degrees half of the year, and where parked, unshaded cars could literally get hot enough to have the steering wheel or seat material cause physical burns when you first get in one that has been left exposed to full sun.

Many desert trees don’t even have leaves large enough to be noticed when they fall, settling between the granite that covers most yards. And if you pick carefully, they require virtually no maintenance.

We once had an opportunity to buy a newly-constructed home near South Mountain, and in planning the yard, placed a slew of palo verde trees. Their airy, green form is gorgeous enough, and their open branching cools the house down a bit while letting dappled sun and shade to dance across the yard ... but in springtime they explode with thousands of small yellow flowers, which - when they drop - cover the ground with a golden carpet. It was an amazingly colorful harbinger of the season, but would freak out some neighbors who were horrified with our nonchalance over the prospect of having to do anything to a yard more time consuming than looking at crushed rock bake in the sun. For us, we’d use a blower under the trees a couple of times in spring, and be done with the maintenance. It was the smallest possible price to pay for the beauty of that bloom.

Here in Utah, we bought a house that had an aspen in the front yard up until a few years prior to our purchase. Over the first summer, little shoots kept popping up in the lawn. In year two, and out of admiration for their pluck and the determination shown by the roots of a tree that hadn’t existed above ground for several years, we decided to let them grow. They’re creating an attractive baby grove in one area. Plenty of folks consider aspen to be ‘weed trees’ and they have survivability issues around our altitude and below, but ever since my first time walking through a grove of them some years ago on a hike in the California Sierras and hearing their leaves ‘talk’ in the breeze, I’ve been in love with them, and I’m so happy to have them in the yard.

As for ‘leaf litter’ - we run a mower across them in fall and munch up everything that our aspens or the maple drop. It returns the nutrients taken up by the tree back into the earth, and uses no bags or additional time (we don’t bag grass either; just let it mulch back into the lawn. So easy! We never had grass in Phoenix, only native flora, so we’re determined to let our lawn here be an asset where it is, and not a time suck).

We’ve even taken some of the neighbors leaves off of their hands and into our yard ... creating a big pile for the kids to run and jump through ... and then mowing it right into the lawn afterwards. : )
Last edited by canpakes on Sun Jan 31, 2021 10:40 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Cutting down *all* the trees in your yard

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canpakes wrote:
Sun Jan 31, 2021 6:07 am


Here in Utah, we bought a house that had an aspen in the front yard up until a few years ago. Over the first summer, little shoots kept popping up in the lawn. In year two, and out of admiration for their pluck and the determination shown by the roots of a tree that hadn’t existed above ground for several years, we decided to let them grow. They’re creating an attractive baby grove in one area. Plenty of folks consider aspen to be ‘weed trees’ and they have survivability issues around our altitude and below, but ever since my first time walking through a grove of them some years ago on a hike in the California Sierras and hearing their leaves ‘talk’ in the breeze, I’ve been in love with them, and I’m so happy to have them in the yard.
YES! They are hard to grow at our altitude but I absolutely love Aspens! They grow off a sucker root underground that's why you see them shooting up roots. So cool. When I taught, I would teach children that Aspens grow in families that hold hands under the ground. :-) Technically, it's feet but, you know. It's a happy little family. (Hmmmm...a family that touches toes under the ground.)
As for ‘leaf litter’ - we run a mower across them in fall and munch up everything that our aspens or the maple drop. It returns the nutrients taken up by the tree back into the earth, and uses no bags or additional time (we don’t bag grass either; just let it mulch back into the lawn. So easy! We never had grass in Phoenix, only native flora, so we’re determined to let our lawn here be an asset where it is, and not a time suck).
That was kind of my point earlier when I said I've never understood why people rake their leaves. I know people who obsess over that. If you did positively nothing to the leaves year after year, you could run the risk of them um, gluing themselves together and fostering disease underneath or preventing sunlight from hitting the grass. But who does that? Just run the mower like you said and for exactly the reason that you stated. People who are new to our area obsess over raking pine needles--we're talking acres of them. Oh! Oh! Are the pine needles too acidic? :shock: :shock: :shock: No folks, settle down. It's a forest. That's how it grows. You know, life cycle? :lol:
We’ve even taken some of the neighbors leaves off of their hands and into our yard ... creating a big pile for the kids to run and jump through ... and then mowing it right into the lawn afterwards. : )
I think it is safe to assume that you are the cool parent in the neighborhood!

(Somebody stop me. Aspen leaf transfer prints. Paint them. Put them face down on paper or cloth. Put a paper towel on top. Run over it with the rolling pin. They make lovely designs to frame, make card fronts, sewn potholders/hot pads, and wall hangings! Use fabric paint if you do it on cloth. I've done them with children to make printed t shirts. Aspen prints make really cool gifts for the g'parents. I mean it. )
We only get stronger when we are lifting something that is heavier than what we are used to. ~ KF

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canpakes
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Re: Cutting down *all* the trees in your yard

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Jersey Girl wrote:
Sun Jan 31, 2021 6:33 am
I absolutely love Aspens! They grow off a sucker root underground that's why you see them shooting up roots. So cool. When I taught, I would teach children that Aspens grow in families that hold hands under the ground. :-) Technically, it's feet but, you know. It's a happy little family. (Hmmmm...a family that touches toes under the ground.)
This reminds me; I’d like to drive a few hours south to see Pando this year. Something about walking through and beneath a hundred acres of bits of one giant interconnected living organism that just sounds very cool.

That was kind of my point earlier when I said I've never understood why people rake their leaves. I know people who obsess over that. If you did positively nothing to the leaves year after year, you could run the risk of them um, gluing themselves together and fostering disease underneath or preventing sunlight from hitting the grass. But who does that? Just run the mower like you said and for exactly the reason that you stated. People who are new to our area obsess over raking pine needles--we're talking acres of them. Oh! Oh! Are the pine needles too acidic? :shock: :shock: :shock: No folks, settle down. It's a forest. That's how it grows. You know, life cycle? :lol:
This also relates to your earlier post on this thread, about the health and management of forests. That ‘life cycle’ is enabled by letting that natural decomposition occur in situ. Forests thrive when they recycle their own material in short cycle. Forest fires are part of that cycle, reducing growth down to the basic components necessary to foster the normal health and succession of plant species - the accepted practice over the last century of quelling forest fires leads to overgrowth, nutrient retention in the canopy, and then sets up conditions ripe for poor forest health and intense burns when fires eventually arrive.

This cycle also explains why South American rainforest that has been cleared ends up becoming dramatically unproductive within a few short years, given that soil viability is supported by the recycling of the canopy back to earth, etc., and removal of that canopy allows the crops that replace it to rapidly deplete the soil, initiating a dependence on chemical fertilizers into areas that needed no such artificial help in supporting a lush rainforest before.

Now I’m just rabbit-holing, but the point is that removing the leaves is basically removing soil fertility and vitality. Same even for grassy areas. Why remove leaves and clippings, forcing yourself to augment soil nutrient levels with chemical fertilizers? Better to just mulch that stuff down and let nature do that work for you.

I think it is safe to assume that you are the cool parent in the neighborhood!
I can’t make that assumption. We have some truly awesome neighbors, and we’re also the heathens amongst the brethren in our mostly-LDS community. : D

(Somebody stop me. Aspen leaf transfer prints. Paint them. Put them face down on paper or cloth. Put a paper towel on top. Run over it with the rolling pin. They make lovely designs to frame, make card fronts, sewn potholders/hot pads, and wall hangings! Use fabric paint if you do it on cloth. I've done them with children to make printed t shirts. Aspen prints make really cool gifts for the g'parents. I mean it. )
Hmm ... now you’ve got me thinking about possibilities. And you’ve also just reminded me to check in on the two colossal aspen leaves that I found last fall and pressed within one of the garden books. The young suckers can throw some unusually huge leaves in their first years and these two were 8” across!
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Re: Cutting down *all* the trees in your yard

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canpakes wrote:
Sun Jan 31, 2021 7:07 am
Jersey Girl wrote:
Sun Jan 31, 2021 6:33 am
I absolutely love Aspens! They grow off a sucker root underground that's why you see them shooting up roots. So cool. When I taught, I would teach children that Aspens grow in families that hold hands under the ground. :-) Technically, it's feet but, you know. It's a happy little family. (Hmmmm...a family that touches toes under the ground.)
This reminds me; I’d like to drive a few hours south to see Pando this year. Something about walking through and beneath a hundred acres of bits of one giant interconnected living organism that just sounds very cool.

That was kind of my point earlier when I said I've never understood why people rake their leaves. I know people who obsess over that. If you did positively nothing to the leaves year after year, you could run the risk of them um, gluing themselves together and fostering disease underneath or preventing sunlight from hitting the grass. But who does that? Just run the mower like you said and for exactly the reason that you stated. People who are new to our area obsess over raking pine needles--we're talking acres of them. Oh! Oh! Are the pine needles too acidic? :shock: :shock: :shock: No folks, settle down. It's a forest. That's how it grows. You know, life cycle? :lol:
This also relates to your earlier post on this thread, about the health and management of forests. That ‘life cycle’ is enabled by letting that natural decomposition occur in situ. Forests thrive when they recycle their own material in short cycle. Forest fires are part of that cycle, reducing growth down to the basic components necessary to foster the normal health and succession of plant species - the accepted practice over the last century of quelling forest fires leads to overgrowth, nutrient retention in the canopy, and then sets up conditions ripe for poor forest health and intense burns when fires eventually arrive.

This cycle also explains why South American rainforest that has been cleared ends up becoming dramatically unproductive within a few short years, given that soil viability is supported by the recycling of the canopy back to earth, etc., and removal of that canopy allows the crops that replace it to rapidly deplete the soil, initiating a dependence on chemical fertilizers into areas that needed no such artificial help in supporting a lush rainforest before.

Now I’m just rabbit-holing, but the point is that removing the leaves is basically removing soil fertility and vitality. Same even for grassy areas. Why remove leaves and clippings, forcing yourself to augment soil nutrient levels with chemical fertilizers? Better to just mulch that stuff down and let nature do that work for you.

I think it is safe to assume that you are the cool parent in the neighborhood!
I can’t make that assumption. We have some truly awesome neighbors, and we’re also the heathens amongst the brethren in our mostly-LDS community. : D

(Somebody stop me. Aspen leaf transfer prints. Paint them. Put them face down on paper or cloth. Put a paper towel on top. Run over it with the rolling pin. They make lovely designs to frame, make card fronts, sewn potholders/hot pads, and wall hangings! Use fabric paint if you do it on cloth. I've done them with children to make printed t shirts. Aspen prints make really cool gifts for the g'parents. I mean it. )
Hmm ... now you’ve got me thinking about possibilities. And you’ve also just reminded me to check in on the two colossal aspen leaves that I found last fall and pressed within one of the garden books. The young suckers can throw some unusually huge leaves in their first years and these two were 8” across!
Random comments:

8 inches?? :o That IS huge for Aspen! We have some Aspen on the property but they don't do well long term. If a harsh cold snap doesn't get them, the deer get them from rubbing their fuzzy little antlers on them during the rutting season and basically cracking them in half. The Aspen, not the antlers.

Yes, to what you said about natural mulch. People don't see the ridiculousness of what they are doing. Disturbing the ecosystem and then using commercial products to amend the soil when they already had it to begin with. Seriously, you don't have to work your butt off when nature already has the job well in hand. All that is needed is a little cooperation on the part of humans.

The intrusion of humans into forests (you know, like us for example) is what presents danger to our forests. People don't want their homes threatened by wildfires and they want that rustic house nestled in the pines. In our area, homeowners are pretty darn vigilant about mitigation and very well aware that this is an old growth forest mainly due to clear cut logging practices back in the day. I don't exactly know what the status is of the logging industry in my state today, I should check on that.

Interesting thing and I don't know how true this is. When the kids were young, we went up on one of the mountains to help plant new pine trees post-wildfire. The person from the forest service told us that they intentionally plant Aspens in certain areas to create fire walls because of their resistance to fire. I can't imagine that would be true in all cases because I've seen Aspen go to ashes above ground as the result of wildfire, so who knows? They do tend to regrow...those little toes touching under the ground! All I've ever seen is heavy equipment cutting swaths of land during wildfires and of course slurry bombers and such.

p.s. You can print on wood, metal and probably rock as well, though I haven't tried it myself.
We only get stronger when we are lifting something that is heavier than what we are used to. ~ KF

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Re: Cutting down *all* the trees in your yard

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Ha. Pando is my wife's favorite place on earth. She loves the idea that something so large can exist for so long. We're atheists, but for her Pando is as close to Gaia as she gets.

Also, shout out for the Palos Verdes. Man, if I could grow them here in Utah that's all I would've planted. Hands down they're my favorite desert tree.

Great tree stories, everyone!

- Doc
Hugh Nibley claimed he bumped into Adolf Hitler, Albert Einstein, Winston Churchill, Gertrude Stein, and the Grand Duke Vladimir Romanoff. Dishonesty is baked into Mormonism.
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Re: Cutting down *all* the trees in your yard

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Jersey Girl wrote:
Sun Jan 31, 2021 7:39 am
8 inches?? :o That IS huge for Aspen!
Wait ... I’m a dirty rotten liar. More like 7.25” when I actually measure. That’s still pretty big! Got a pic -

Image

We have some Aspen on the property but they don't do well long term. If a harsh cold snap doesn't get them, the deer get them from rubbing their fuzzy little antlers on them during the rutting season and basically cracking them in half. The Aspen, not the antlers.
We had some deer visit our front yard last winter and munch on a few of the smallest suckers. No visits this year yet, but winter has been super-mild and they seem to have plenty to see and eat elsewhere, so far.

Interesting thing and I don't know how true this is. When the kids were young, we went up on one of the mountains to help plant new pine trees post-wildfire. The person from the forest service told us that they intentionally plant Aspens in certain areas to create fire walls because of their resistance to fire. I can't imagine that would be true in all cases because I've seen Aspen go to ashes above ground as the result of wildfire, so who knows? They do tend to regrow...those little toes touching under the ground! All I've ever seen is heavy equipment cutting swaths of land during wildfires and of course slurry bombers and such.
I’ve heard the same. I imagine that this fire resistance works best if the fire is a grasslands or shrub fire and approaching a more densely forested area. In a situation with an intense fire that has begun within the thick of the forest, then nothing will stand a chance.
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Re: Cutting down *all* the trees in your yard

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I lived in hurricane prone areas. I couldn't understand why they left some giant coniferous trees when building the house rather than cutting them down as part of the construction process. You're just one windstorm away from one of these giants destroying your house. It costs a lot of money then to professionally top and cut them down without the tree falling on your house.
And when the Confederates saw Jackson standing fearless like a stonewall, the army of Northern Virginia took courage and drove the federal army off their land.
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Re: Cutting down *all* the trees in your yard

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ajax18 wrote:
Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:07 pm
I lived in hurricane prone areas. I couldn't understand why they left some giant coniferous trees when building the house rather than cutting them down as part of the construction process. You're just one windstorm away from one of these giants destroying your house. It costs a lot of money then to professionally top and cut them down without the tree falling on your house.
Things are a bit different from the tree’s point of view.

Most things in life involve some risk. So you protect yourself. Do you carry insurance? And why did you choose to live in hurricane-prone areas?
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Re: Cutting down *all* the trees in your yard

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Things are a bit different from the tree’s point of view.
Sure they are. Given the current crisis we face in climate change, do you think maybe there should be a law against people cutting down trees in their yard?
Most things in life involve some risk.
So the shade over 15 years is worth the risk of the tree smashing through your house?

So you protect yourself.
Do you realize that if you ever successfully make a claim on your homeowner's insurance you'll probably never find anyone willing to insure you again?
Do you carry insurance? And why did you choose to live in hurricane-prone areas?
I don't think it a wise use of insurance to cover people building houses right next to giant trees in a windy place. It's irresponsible not to cut the tree down before you build there.
And when the Confederates saw Jackson standing fearless like a stonewall, the army of Northern Virginia took courage and drove the federal army off their land.
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Re: Cutting down *all* the trees in your yard

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canpakes wrote:
Sun Jan 31, 2021 9:48 pm
Jersey Girl wrote:
Sun Jan 31, 2021 7:39 am
8 inches?? :o That IS huge for Aspen!
Wait ... I’m a dirty rotten liar. More like 7.25” when I actually measure. That’s still pretty big! Got a pic -

Image

I am not a leaf expert but I have some doubt about the aspen leaf. Just for consideration or curiosity I will observe that the leaf looks like a fairly common brush in the canyons near my home. I am unsure of the name. The nearest Aspens are some 70 miles away as the crow flies. The mountains in my immediate neighborhood are lower elevation which I believe accounts for the lack of aspens. The difference is not so large that the plant groupings could not overlap in some places.
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