Will Biden lock up more black people?

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Analytics
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Re: Will Biden lock up more black people?

Post by Analytics »

This thread reminds me of the murder of Latasha Harlins. If you don’t remember, in 1991 Latasha was 15 years old. She was at a convenience store in LA owned by A 51-year old Korean woman named Soon Ja Du. Ja Du believed that Harlins had a bottle of orange juice in her backpack that she was attempting to shop lift, so she took out her gun and shot Latasha in the back of the head as she was walking out of the store.

Ja Du was found guilty of voluntary manslaughter, and the judge sentenced her to 4 years probation and a $500 fine.

What do you think of that, Ajax? Since The victim was black, was this penalty too harsh?
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ajax18
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Re: Will Biden lock up more black people?

Post by ajax18 »

Analytics wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 11:00 pm
This thread reminds me of the murder of Latasha Harlins. If you don’t remember, in 1991 Latasha was 15 years old. She was at a convenience store in LA owned by A 51-year old Korean woman named Soon Ja Du. Ja Du believed that Harlins had a bottle of orange juice in her backpack that she was attempting to shop lift, so she took out her gun and shot Latasha in the back of the head as she was walking out of the store.

Ja Du was found guilty of voluntary manslaughter, and the judge sentenced her to 4 years probation and a $500 fine.

What do you think of that, Ajax? Since The victim was black, was this penalty too harsh?
Well would you agree with Dr. Gu that the root problem of these crimes is white supremacy, even when neither of the parties involved are white?
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ajax18
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Re: Will Biden lock up more black people?

Post by ajax18 »

Pollak: What Joe Biden Means by ‘Equity’
President Joe Biden has used the word “equity” frequently in his statements and executive orders.

The dictionary defines “equity” as “the quality of being fair or impartial.” The word also means “ownership”: stocks are “equities,” for example.
However, Biden uses “equity” to mean something far more radical.

Biden defined the term “equity” on his first day in office, in the “Executive Order On Advancing Racial Equity and Support for Underserved Communities Through the Federal Government”:

The term “equity” means the consistent and systematic fair, just, and impartial treatment of all individuals, including individuals who belong to underserved communities that have been denied such treatment, such as Black, Latino, and Indigenous and Native American persons, Asian Americans and Pacific Islanders and other persons of color; members of religious minorities; lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, and queer (LGBTQ+) persons; persons with disabilities; persons who live in rural areas; and persons otherwise adversely affected by persistent poverty or inequality.

The definition is inherently contradictory. On the one hand, equity promises “impartial treatment.” On the other, equity is aimed at specific groups of people, and not others.

The word “impartial” suggests that “equity” is similar to the word “equality.” Equality before the law is a fundamental principle of our legal system. The Judeo-Christian ideal is that the law should be “no respecter of persons” — that is, it remains the same regardless of identity or status.

However, as noted above, Biden’s definition of “equity” specifically recognizes identity and status. The words “fair” and “just” also hint at the goal “social justice” — that is, at equality of outcomes.

“Equity” therefore does not mean treating all individuals the same. It means that the government will treat individuals differently, so that all groups might be brought to the same level, especially in terms of material wealth.
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ajax18
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Re: Will Biden lock up more black people?

Post by ajax18 »

Analytics wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 3:37 pm
I've never heard anybody seriously argue that blacks should receive a pass from the judicial system because they are black. All I've heard them say is that blacks should be treated the same as anybody else.
What you're describing is equality of opportunity. The left doesn't use the word equality anymore. What they want is equity, which means equal outcomes. So it's impossible for Biden to crack down on hate crimes against Asians if too large a percentage of the perpetrators turn out to be black without being racist in the process. This would be a disparate outcome for a protected minority. Unless they can find a way to shift the blame and responsibility to systemic racism and white supremacism nas Dr. Gu is doing, they can't really do anything about it without violating their principle of equity and social justice which means something far different from equality in the current woke vernacular.
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Re: Will Biden lock up more black people?

Post by Morley »

ajax18 wrote:
Fri Apr 02, 2021 1:44 am
What they want is equity, which means equal outcomes.
No, it doesn't, Ajax. Equity doesn't have anything to do with outcome. It has to do with resource allocation.

For example, if a teacher provides the same lessons to all students, that's equality. If the same teacher recognizes that Jimmy needs extra tutoring in math, Sally is gifted and should be provided with alternate textbooks, and Shawn needs a little more attention than most students, it is equity.

Providing stairs in a courthouse, for everyone to use, is equality. Installing wheelchair ramps, for those who can't climb stairs, is equity.

It’s not difficult.

.
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Re: Will Biden lock up more black people?

Post by Res Ipsa »

Morley wrote:
Fri Apr 02, 2021 4:11 am
ajax18 wrote:
Fri Apr 02, 2021 1:44 am
What they want is equity, which means equal outcomes.
No, it doesn't, Ajax. Equity doesn't have anything to do with outcome. It has to do with resource allocation.

For example, if a teacher provides the same lessons to all students, that's equality. If the same teacher recognizes that Jimmy needs extra tutoring in math, Sally is gifted and should be provided with alternate textbooks, and Shawn needs a little more attention that most students, it is equity.

Providing stairs in a courthouse, for everyone to use, is equality. Installing wheelchair ramps, for those who can't climb stairs, is equity.

Sometimes I doubt you attended college.

.
Good explanation. I think of it this way. Fairness consists of treating the same thing in the same way, and treating different things in different ways. We are all the same in some ways and different in some ways. All we have to do is figure out which sameness and differences are important.

This isn’t the first time Ajax has claimed that liberals demand equality of outcomes. It’s more complicated than that. Conservatives tend to argue equality of opportunity in a vacuum. Liberals tend to consider significant discrepancies in outcome as evidence that the system that appears to provide equality of opportunity in theory doesn’t do so in practice.

In theory, our system of Justices is colorblind. In fact, black folks are significantly over represented in prisons based on drug crimes when compared with the statistics on drug use. Conservatives blame black folks. Liberals say that colorblind in theory is not colorblind in practice.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.” -- Voltaire
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Re: Will Biden lock up more black people?

Post by Jersey Girl »

Res Ipsa wrote:
Fri Apr 02, 2021 4:48 am
Morley wrote:
Fri Apr 02, 2021 4:11 am


No, it doesn't, Ajax. Equity doesn't have anything to do with outcome. It has to do with resource allocation.

For example, if a teacher provides the same lessons to all students, that's equality. If the same teacher recognizes that Jimmy needs extra tutoring in math, Sally is gifted and should be provided with alternate textbooks, and Shawn needs a little more attention that most students, it is equity.

Providing stairs in a courthouse, for everyone to use, is equality. Installing wheelchair ramps, for those who can't climb stairs, is equity.

Sometimes I doubt you attended college.

.
Good explanation. I think of it this way. Fairness consists of treating the same thing in the same way, and treating different things in different ways. We are all the same in some ways and different in some ways. All we have to do is figure out which sameness and differences are important.

This isn’t the first time Ajax has claimed that liberals demand equality of outcomes. It’s more complicated than that. Conservatives tend to argue equality of opportunity in a vacuum. Liberals tend to consider significant discrepancies in outcome as evidence that the system that appears to provide equality of opportunity in theory doesn’t do so in practice.

In theory, our system of Justices is colorblind. In fact, black folks are significantly over represented in prisons based on drug crimes when compared with the statistics on drug use. Conservatives blame black folks. Liberals say that colorblind in theory is not colorblind in practice.
What you said here: Liberals tend to consider significant discrepancies in outcome as evidence that the system that appears to provide equality of opportunity in theory doesn’t do so in practice.

Makes me identify as Liberal. Would you allow for the possibility that some folks are both liberal and conservative in their thinking depending on the issue under consideration?
Res Ipsa
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Re: Will Biden lock up more black people?

Post by Res Ipsa »

Jersey Girl,

Absolutely. We’re really talking general tendencies. Individuals can and do mix and match.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.” -- Voltaire
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Re: Will Biden lock up more black people?

Post by Analytics »

ajax18 wrote:
Fri Apr 02, 2021 1:44 am
What you're describing is equality of opportunity. The left doesn't use the word equality anymore.
How would you know? You never listen to the left, much less seriously try to understand their point of view.
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Re: Will Biden lock up more black people?

Post by Analytics »

ajax18 wrote:
Fri Apr 02, 2021 12:33 am
Well would you agree with Dr. Gu that the root problem of these crimes is white supremacy, even when neither of the parties involved are white?
I don't know Dr. Gu, don't know much about the issue, and don't think I can learn enough to establish an informed opinion in 140 characters.

I recently saw a documentary about the Rodney King riots in LA 30 years ago. A few months before those cops were judged not guilty of beating the $#%! out of Rodney King as he lay unconscious on the ground, a white judge said a Korean woman didn't need to spend a single day in jail for shooting a 15-year old black girl in the back of the head. 4 years of probation is enough. And $500 in restitution--that is how much the court decided the child's life was worth.

My point is that to me at least, race relations in the United States appears to be a complicated issue. So that I may fully understand Dr. Gu's position, can you refer me to a book or dissertation that fully articulates it?
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