Vaccine Passports

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Icarus
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Vaccine Passports

Post by Icarus »

Republicans are such hypocrites. For more than a year they whined about business closings due to concerns about COVID, and now when private businesses propose vaccine passports so they can reopen and get back to business safely, the Republicans are having conniption fits about how it tears down their "freedom." Yeah, so it was never really about helping the overall economy or local businesses stay afloat, it was always about their own selfish ends. They're basically saying private businesses shouldn't be able to serve the general public who took the virus seriously unless they also serve the ones who continue to endanger the lives of others.

This, coming from the same lot of morons who argued that a "Christian" baker shouldn't have to serve gay customers. This, coming from the same group who believes any brown looking American citizen who could be mistaken for an illegal immigrant must carry with at all times them proof of citizenship. That's not reducing freedoms? No, only when it affects them personally. They never truly believed their own B.S..
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ajax18
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Re: Vaccine Passports

Post by ajax18 »

I don't quite understand the fear of the vaccine on the right. But I'm not exactly afraid of COVID either. What percent of the US actually died from COVID? I supposedly got COVID and wouldn't have known had I not needed a nonrelated surgery. I had zero symptoms and zero symptoms with the vaccine as well. But that's because you're young and in good health you say? My parents both got it. Both have had heart surgeries and are in their late 60s. They told me they've had flu bugs that were far worse.

The first models on this disease were terribly wrong. As more data came out and we realized this, Republican governors like Ron DeSantis began to allow people to return to work despite being accused of having blood on their hands by the leftist mainstream media. When all was said and done, the numbers in FL were as good or better than the numbers in perpetual lockdown states like California and New York. One must ask, why did DeSantis adjust his policy according to new data and better science while governors like Newsome and Cuomo continue to push the narrative that those who returned to work had blood on their hands? One possible reason is that Democrats like to find excuses to not go to work, especially those who earned more being unemployed than working. But I think the main reason was to sabotage the US economy in the lead up to the 2020 election.

The number of foreclosures, lost personal savings, and trillions more in debt placed upon the backs of our children and grandchildren is a legacy of cowardice and politically motivated media manipulation and scare tactic that will mark this generation of Americans as one of the most disgraceful and selfish generations ever. They literally sold the economic freedom of future generations over a virus that killed <1% of the population.
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Gadianton
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Re: Vaccine Passports

Post by Gadianton »

What percent of the US actually died from COVID? I supposedly got COVID and wouldn't have known had I not needed a nonrelated surgery. I had zero symptoms and zero symptoms with the vaccine as well. But that's because you're young and in good health you say? My parents both got it. Both have had heart surgeries and are in their late 60s. They told me they've had flu bugs that were far worse.
You're a moron, you can look up stats if you really want to know the answer. As a medical guy, you should know that the fact that it doesn't affect most people very badly, including older people, and including people with underlying conditions, is why it's such a spreader. How can you be in the medical field and make moronic statement like, "My Uncle Jim Bob is sixty-five and got it and it was no big deal, so how can it can it be that bad?"

It's probably true that the chances of your relatives getting killed by Covid are lower than getting eaten by an alligator while crossing the front lawn in the morning to raise the confederate flag. But your stupid personal experiences mean nothing, and you can't possibly think otherwise. And you don't think otherwise, because you got the vaccine. Do you get flu shots? probably not, neither do I, generally. Why don't you go run to your friends at LDS Freedom Forum and admit you got the vaccine? They aren't going to get it. It's because you know better than they do, you don't believe the lies they do, but you're willing to stand with them and spread the lies. You have no moral integrity whatsoever, and you should be ashamed of yourself.

If you're in your 30s, your chances of getting Covid without masks and social distancing is about 100%, and your chances of being hospitalized are 3.5%, which is roughly 75 times your chances of being hospitalized by the flu. It's a numbers game, as you well know. You're not willing to roll the dice, and play a game every six months where there's an 80% chance (I don't know if that's the real number) you won't even know you're sick, but a 3.5% chance you'll end up in the hospital, and repeat for the rest of your life -- with the odds going up as you get older. That's why you got the shot.

Hey, dumbass, did you know that the chances of getting in an accident while driving drunk are less than 1%? So why are we so worried about it? I know lots of people who have driven drunk and never gotten into an accident or killed a pedestrian.

If you can't fairly represent what the risks actually are, then STFU about your moronic hero DeSantis, and don't try to talk about economic damage. What the right strategy is in terms of lockdowns and so on, is surely an open question, but it's not one that can be pursued rationally if you're going to completely misrepresent the first part of the problem: "Nobody I know got that sick from Covid so why did we need to lockdown?" Jesus, you're an idiot.
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ajax18
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Re: Vaccine Passports

Post by ajax18 »

And you don't think otherwise, because you got the vaccine.
I got the vaccine so that I could work and shop at the store without being hassled, not because I had any fear of COVID.

Keep up with your leftist game of only reporting the worst numbers to scare people the most, whether it be # of people testing positive or # of hospitalizations, etc. Your prolonged shutdowns in New York in California were ill advised. The fact that you want money from states that had the good sense to keep going to work while you belittled them the whole time is immoral and disgusting.
Chap
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Re: Vaccine Passports

Post by Chap »

ajax18 wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 5:15 pm
The fact that you want money from states that had the good sense to keep going to work while you belittled them the whole time is immoral and disgusting.
Really? So this is an exception to the more general pattern in which red states get more money from redistributed federal funds than blue states, while paying less in taxes?
Zadok:
I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
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Doctor Steuss
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Re: Vaccine Passports

Post by Doctor Steuss »

Something that may help those 55+ to relate to:

The worst year of the polio pandemic in the US resulted in 3,145 dead. About 95% of cases were asymptomatic.

In other words, there is much more to a pandemic to consider than just mortality rates, and symptomatic cases.
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Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: Vaccine Passports

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

Chap wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 6:55 pm
ajax18 wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 5:15 pm
The fact that you want money from states that had the good sense to keep going to work while you belittled them the whole time is immoral and disgusting.
Really? So this is an exception to the more general pattern in which red states get more money from redistributed federal funds than blue states, while paying less in taxes?
Xanax is on record saying that's a lie and refuses to read anything that sets the record straight. You can literally offer up pictures with data points so he doesn't have to read it, and he'll say it's a lie and move on to the next goldfish moment.

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Clinton King commenting on SeN: "My (perhaps) uncommon personal opinion: I find it easier to doubt the accuracy of carbon dating than the historicity of the Book of Abraham narrative." Good, Lord.
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ajax18
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Re: Vaccine Passports

Post by ajax18 »

Doctor Steuss wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 7:15 pm
Something that may help those 55+ to relate to:

The worst year of the polio pandemic in the US resulted in 3,145 dead. About 95% of cases were asymptomatic.

In other words, there is much more to a pandemic to consider than just mortality rates, and symptomatic cases.
'
Well yeah, the media would only run numbers of positive tests for COVID back in June and July for the sole purpose of trying to claim DeSantis was orchestrating mass killings in Florida. As it turns out, DeSantis numbers were way better than Cuomo's and as good or better than Newsome's in California, all while he kept people working and gainfully employed.
Res Ipsa
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Re: Vaccine Passports

Post by Res Ipsa »

Usually, folks wait until an event is complete before they start rewriting its history.

Way back at the beginning, I heard several experts say that the irony of taking public health measures to reduce the rate of infections, disease and death was that, after the fact, people would complain that folks overreacted because the pandemic wasn't so bad. They must all know Ajax.

The pandemic isn't over. Vaccine refusal will mean this sucker will be around a long time. Washington was one the early states to get hit, and it initially tore through our assisted living facilities. Yet, our governor recently held a press conference because 300,000 of our folks 65 and older still hadn't gotten their first shot. And older folks tend to skew politically to the right.

So, drawing any firm conclusions about differences between the states at this point is silly. On top of that, we also have to consider the history of the epidemic itself. The U.S. didn't take the well-known and effective measures that would be needed to keep the virus out. Because we pretend we had, and because of a shortage of tests, we limited testing to people with a recent connection to China. And we continued to do so as we watched cases show up in country after country after country. We required people on cruise ships to quarantine for two weeks, but otherwise let Americans return from China with no quarantine and let everyone come in from countries that had experienced cases. But, for the first two months, you couldn't be tested for COVID even if you were hospitalized with the symptoms unless you had been to China or exposed to someone who was.

We also couldn't conduct surveillance testing, as we do with the flu each year. So we had no ability to see where the virus had entered the U.S. and how it was spreading. We gave it a 60-day head start before even trying to take effective steps.

It's no surprise that the states to get hit first were hit the hardest. And especially in the densely populated northeast. New York is an international travel hub, and high population density increases the chance of transmission. By the time that the U.S. realized that the virus was spreading exponentially in certain areas, the only way to prevent collapse of our health care systems was the lockdown. States in which the virus spread later in time had plenty of warning -- they got to watch the early experience. But they didn't learn.

Those early models that ajax claims were wildly inaccurate were models that predicted what would happen if we didn't change our behavior. We did lots better than those models predicted because we did change our behavior. Even changes in hand washing, social distancing, wearing face coverings would change the assumptions those models were based on. Additional measures to slow the spread gave us even better results. You know who was consistently wrong? Guys like Ioannadis who consistently under predicted infections and deaths and confidently claimed the best course was to do nothing.

The sole focus on deaths is just silly. For some reason, Ajax seems to think that there are ventilator fairies that just appear and treat people for free. Disease soaks up time and resources. We unnecessarily killed a bunch of doctors, nurses and others in the health care profession. Now we'll need to replace those. Had we done nothing, you'd have witnessed a complete collapse of hospitals and other health are facilities. Had we not locked down, we would have had to spend enormous amounts of money on building temporary hospitals, like Wuhan did. And we'd have faced constant shortages of the equipment and supplies needed to treat COVID patients.

At the end of the pandemic, the CDC will do an analysis of total disease burden to estimate the impact of the virus. Until then, cherry picking the numbers that happen to fit one's argument on any given day is stupid. Politicizing a disease is stupid. In fact, the main failure of the United States falls squarely on the federal leadership that elected to use the pandemic as a wedge issue for a presidential election instead of uniting the country against the disease. You want to see a success. Look at South Korea. It wasn't just that they were prepared in terms of PPE and test supplies. From the beginning, their leadership united the country. It was all the people against the virus. In the U.S., we did just the opposite. Leadership used the virus to divide rather than unite. And Americans suffered avoidable illness and death as a result.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.” -- Voltaire
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ajax18
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Re: Vaccine Passports

Post by ajax18 »

The Biden administation is backing off vacine passports.
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