On audits, elections and public trust

[Moksha]

Donald Trump has reportedly been telling his associates that he expects to be "reinstated" as president this summer, and social media users can't decide whether to laugh or panic.

https://www.rawstory.com/donald-trump-i ... 653193208/

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

Does anyone besides ME know what I would be referring to by saying that Trump gave a middle finger to the constitution? You only have about 236 or so examples to choose from.

I do, the example most immediately coming to mind being the already discussed occasion when Trump had peaceful protesters tear gassed and forcibly driven away by his thugs so he could walk to and pose in front of a church while holding up a Bible - apparently upside down no less! There have been countless remarks on the internet about how Trump and his cronies "gave a middle finger to the constitution" by their words and actions.

That church was subjected to arson, vandalism, and graffiti. So. Not so peaceful.

- Doc

[Gunnar]

That church was subjected to arson, vandalism, and graffiti. So. Not so peaceful.

- Doc

It is true that:

Protests, some of them violent, had occurred around the church on previous nights, and the church was briefly in danger on Sunday after a fire started in the church basement.

But still we can't deny that on that evening, peaceful protesters were tear-gassed to clear way for Trump's photo-op.

The plaza between St. John's Church and Lafayette Park was full of people nonviolently protesting police brutality late Monday afternoon when U.S. Park Police and National Guard troops, with the use of tear gas, suddenly started pushing them away for no apparent reason.

And then it became clear.

President Trump wanted to walk from the White House through the park to the Episcopal church. Camera crews scrambled to keep up with him as he strode through the park, followed by his daughter Ivanka and her husband, Jared Kushner, along with Attorney General William Barr and other administration officials.

The visit came just after Trump delivered remarks at the White House, declaring himself "your president of law and order" and demanding that governors deploy National Guard units and "dominate the streets."

St. John's Church opened in 1816 and is known as "the Church of the Presidents," having hosted every U.S. president since James Madison. On this occasion, however, the president's visit was unannounced, and church authorities were furious that the White House did not bother to alert them.

"There was no reaching out, no sense that it would require some sort of authorization before using the church as a backdrop in that way," said the Right Rev. Mariann Edgar Budde, Episcopal bishop of Washington, with oversight responsibilities for the church.

A former St. John's minister, Gini Gerbasi, was among those attending to the protesters in front of the church when the police moved in.

"We were literally DRIVEN OFF of the St. John's, Lafayette Square patio with tear gas and concussion grenades and police in full riot gear," she wrote in a Facebook post. "PEOPLE WERE HURT SO THAT [President Trump] COULD HAVE A PHOTO OPPORTUNITY IN FRONT OF THE CHURCH!!! HE WOULD HAVE HAD TO STEP OVER THE MEDICAL SUPPLIES WE LEFT BEHIND BECAUSE WE WERE BEING TEAR GASSED!!!!"

It seems quite clear that Trump tried to make it all about him for his own, selfish political purposes. Had he been wiser, he would have coordinated in advance with the clergy in charge of the church and had them stand with him instead of rudely driving them off, like he did, for a blatantly political, self-aggrandizing photo-op. He would have probably avoided most, if not all, the negative publicity he got for that, had he not been so stupidly ham-handed about it.

[Moksha]

I think the Sedition statute and the Uniform Code of Military Justice both apply to former General Michael Flynn's call for a military coup to install Trump as a dictator.

[Gunnar]

I agree that Flynn fully deserves to be court martialed for that remark. He would be in prison now, had Trump not pardoned him undeservedly for previous crimes.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

Gunnar,

Why are you downplaying what the protestors did to the church?

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/loca ... g/2318673/

a fire in the basement

A large fire also burned outside the church at one point.

The nursery was set on fire

The protective glass over a stained-glass window was broken

Graffiti stained the building's yellow and white exterior.

Peaceful demonstrations were followed by some attendees clashing with police outside the White House

I swear the double reality people live in regarding the blm “protests” is as bizarre to me as trumpers, antivaxers, and any other folks who can’t seem to objectively look at reality and accept it.



- Doc

[jpatterson]

Doc, the violent protestors (who set fires and caused damage on Sunday, May 31) had been cleared out by the time Trump did his photo opp the next day, on June 1. The photo above is at night, for example. That's because it was taken the night before Trump attacked.

You're conflating two related, but still separate protests. The one that Trump broke up was widely described as peaceful.

[jpatterson]

I swear the double reality people live in regarding the blm “protests” is as bizarre to me as trumpers, antivaxers, and any other folks who can’t seem to objectively look at reality and accept it.

I'm not sure what double reality you're referring to, but I know that there are tons of BLM activists who don't condone violence at all. In fact, if you ever go to a BLM rally, you're likely to hear organizers talk about the fact that the demonstration hinges on its ability to be peaceful.

Unfortunately, massive crowds are subject to factions becoming violent. The vast majority of BLM protests last year were entirely peaceful, just as the vast majority of Trump rallies have been peaceful.

One of the biggest differences between BLM and Trump activists is that Trump actively encourages violence at his rallies and among his supporters. I'm not aware of BLM organizers openly advocating for violence.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

I swear the double reality people live in regarding the blm “protests” is as bizarre to me as trumpers, antivaxers, and any other folks who can’t seem to objectively look at reality and accept it.

I'm not sure what double reality you're referring to, but I know that there are tons of BLM activists who don't condone violence at all. In fact, if you ever go to a BLM rally, you're likely to hear organizers talk about the fact that the demonstration hinges on its ability to be peaceful.

Unfortunately, massive crowds are subject to factions becoming violent. The vast majority of BLM protests last year were entirely peaceful, just as the vast majority of Trump rallies have been peaceful.

One of the biggest differences between BLM and Trump activists is that Trump actively encourages violence at his rallies and among his supporters. I'm not aware of BLM organizers openly advocating for violence.

No one is arguing all BLM protesters are violent. Google is a click away if you want to find examples of BLM leaders, antifa types who participate in the protests, and other factions advocating violence you can easily find examples.

Just one example of thousands:

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/12538173/ ... ce-graves/

Video showed the leader as he spoke in a heated voice to a crowd of protesters on Black Lives Matter Plaza.

"Im at the point where I'm ready to put these police in a f***ing grave," he said. "I'm at the point where I want to burn the f***ing White House down."

He said he wants to "take the fight" to senators and members of Congress – and if they "don't hear us," they will "burn them the f**k down."

The organizer said he "f**ks cops up" in different cities where demonstrations are held.

I don't feel the need to get into another round of BLM-protest-violence posting. I agree that the majority of BLM protesters were non-violent, but that doesn't negate that many, many of them were not. Going back to Gunnar's statement above, the protest at the church wasn't peaceful. When things get torched, vandalized, and graffiti'd the protest is no longer peaceful.

- Doc

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

Doc, the violent protestors (who set fires and caused damage on Sunday, May 31) had been cleared out by the time Trump did his photo opp the next day, on June 1. The photo above is at night, for example. That's because it was taken the night before Trump attacked.

You're conflating two related, but still separate protests. The one that Trump broke up was widely described as peaceful.

I'm not defending Trump or his actions. I'm about as anti-Trump and anti-GOP as you can get. I know what he did. I know why he did it. I was just pointing out the misinformation Gunnar posted about the church.

- Doc