Joseph Smith Stole One Eternal Now

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Shulem
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Joseph Smith Stole One Eternal Now

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Shulem » Sun Sep 23, 2018 11:14 am wrote:I just found out where Joseph Smith borrowed (stole) the statement or concept of "One Eternal Now". Smith was a thief who took credit for everything he ever stole and heaped the credits on himself as if it was revelation.
Joseph Smith, TPJS 220 wrote: Image

The great Jehovah contemplated the whole of the events connected with the earth, pertaining to the plan of salvation, before it rolled into existence, or ever ‘the morning stars sang together’ for joy; the past, the present, and the future were and are, with Him, one eternal ‘now’
Shulem » Sun Sep 23, 2018 11:14 am wrote:I contend that Joseph Smith got the one eternal now from the 1830 Methodist Review or from some other preaching available to him, see here:

The Methodist Review

Also,

The “one eternal round” found in the Book of Mormon and Doctrine & Covenants was a concept which Joseph Smith used and incorporated into his revelations as if they were new and everlasting revelations heard for the first time. It was not new. Joseph Smith was almost certainly aware of the Methodist Review and simply borrowed (at best) or stole (at worst) without giving credit to the real source but pretending to revelation in order to set himself up as an original source of a fantastic concept.

One eternal round in the 1830 Methodist Review:

"one eternal round"
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Re: Joseph Smith Stole the One Eternal Now

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Kittens_and_Jesus » Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:44 pm wrote:Joseph Smith wasn't actually very creative at all. He went from claiming he could find buried gold with magic rocks and a hat to claiming he could translate golden scriptures (which had been buried) with magic rocks and a hat...

Who buys that kind of nonsense?

To be fair, I used to. I was a TBM for the first 17 years of my life. Still...

Half of the Book of Mormon is "yea verily, I say unto you that it came to pass that inasmuch as..."

Such repetitive mind numbing drivel!

Not to mention the KJV plagiarism. Not much original material at all.
I have a question » Mon Dec 09, 2019 8:10 am wrote:This appears to me to be a “Big” find, another smoking gun even. This should be a Terrestrial thread.
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Re: Joseph Smith Stole the One Eternal Now

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Shulem » Mon Dec 09, 2019 8:23 am wrote:I would love to have consiglieri (Radio Free Mormon) and Kishkumen pick this up. I have a feeling that the "One Eternal Now" would catch their interest. As a devout Mormon, I was under the impression that this was a special revelation revealed to Smith by God himself and that the world didn't understand these things. Boy, was I ever wrong. It turns out the world understood a lot more than I ever realized and I gave Joe too much credit where credit was not due.
Kishkumen » Mon Dec 09, 2019 4:21 pm wrote:Is this Adam Clarke of the “one eternal now” the same person who wrote the commentary Joseph relied upon heavily when doing the JST?
Shulem » Mon Dec 09, 2019 6:35 pm wrote:Kishkumen,

I think so. What do you think, Kishy? I think this is a big find. I was so disappointed to learn that Smith was parroting what he had read or heard. I thought it was an original concept fallen from his lips. But apparently not.
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Re: Joseph Smith Stole the One Eternal Now

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Shulem » Mon Dec 09, 2019 8:14 pm wrote:
consiglieri, where are you when I need you?


What do you think about all this?

Don't you dare think about skipping this thread lest I skip my next donation to Radio Free Mormon. I'm behind payments and owe you.
huckelberry » Mon Dec 09, 2019 8:38 pm wrote:So where and when did Joseph Smith make this comment about the eternal now? It is a phrase which references traditional theological ideas which may not fit well with the later ideas Joseph was experimenting with. Is the date late indicating some vasilation of thought?
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Re: Joseph Smith Stole the One Eternal Now

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consiglieri » Mon Dec 09, 2019 10:30 pm wrote:I think you have made a significant find, Shulem!

I congratulate you on your percipience

So does Terryl.
consiglieri » Mon Dec 09, 2019 10:34 pm wrote:I am actually serious about this being the kind of thing Terryl would groove on.

Would you like me to transmit your find to him through back channels?

Terryl is pretty good about giving proper attribution.
Shulem » Mon Dec 09, 2019 10:46 pm wrote: Sure, anything you can do would be appreciated. I'm pretty sure that the "One Eternal Now" that Joseph Smith adopted into his theology was one of many borrowings he picked up from various scholarly commentaries.
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Re: Joseph Smith Stole the One Eternal Now

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Shulem » Mon Dec 09, 2019 11:08 pm wrote:huckelberry,

Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 220; History of the Church, 4:597
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Re: Joseph Smith Stole the One Eternal Now

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consiglieri » Tue Dec 10, 2019 12:03 am wrote:Consider the message sent.
consiglieri » Tue Dec 10, 2019 12:07 am wrote:You know, it occurs to me we have not yet seen the actual correspondences found between Clark's commentary and the Joseph Smith translation. I wonder if this is among them. Hard to know when it has not been published yet.
consiglieri » Tue Dec 10, 2019 12:07 am wrote:“One eternal round” appears in the Methodist Review in 1821 and was also found in multiple hymns in the mid 1820s.

https://books.google.com/books?id=M6RJA ... 22&f=false

https://books.google.com/books?id=CioPA ... 22&f=false

https://books.google.com/books?id=X_BNA ... 4Q6AEIXDAI

Reminds me of “Redeeming Love” — revival era hymn phrase becomes rousing Nephite theological exhortation.
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Re: Joseph Smith Stole the One Eternal Now

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Dr Moore » Tue Dec 10, 2019 12:37 am wrote:"One eternal Now" is a really interesting phrase. Adam Clarke didn't coin it first, though.

1738: here

1775: dictionary

1798: here

1803: here

1818: here

1819: here

And quite a few similar magazines and monthlies publications in the 1820's, including one called "The New Jerusalem Missionary" in 1824
Kishkumen » Tue Dec 10, 2019 6:39 am wrote:Wonderful, Dr. Moore! Hell, if it was in the dictionary, it must have been a pretty common phrase. Maybe there is no mystery here. Instead this is Joseph Smith working with a popular phrase of the 18th-19th centuries. That’s good to know!
Shulem » Tue Dec 10, 2019 8:29 am wrote:Wow. Just Wow. Thank you for that post.

:o
Holy Ghost » Tue Dec 10, 2019 12:16 pm wrote:Perhaps just a Nephite phrase that lingered among the Lamanites until co-opted by the white man in the 18th Century.
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Re: Joseph Smith Stole the One Eternal Now

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Shulem » Tue Dec 10, 2019 8:27 am wrote:All that time as a believing Mormon I thought it was something that Joseph Smith had originated -- something entirely new that had come from him. Boy, was I stupid to think that. The Mormon Spirit can be deceptive at times. It sure fooled me.

1 Nephi 10:19 course of the Lord is one eternal round
Alma 7:20 course is one eternal round
Alma 37:12 course is one eternal round

D&C 3:2 course is one eternal round
D&C 35:1 course is one eternal round
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Re: Joseph Smith Stole the One Eternal Now

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Shulem » Tue Dec 10, 2019 8:39 am wrote:All this is rather surreal to some degree. I had always thought and believed that it was originally coined by the prophet Joseph Smith. Recently, I had respect for him in using that amazing terminology thinking he was really on to something. I was wrong. He was just stealing everything he picked up from other sources. I think that was his greatest talent, to steal and lie -- sad to say.
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