Pearl of Great Price Central Facsimile 1 as a Sacrifice Scene

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Shulem
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Biblical dates for the Flood and Abraham

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Shulem wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:32 am
The Book of Abraham established the founding of Egypt in 2400 BC by Ham's progeny. Muhlestein & Gee, please step forward and account for the previous 600 years leading to the time when you affirm that the unification of Upper and Lower Egypt took place!
Muhlestein wrote:
Gee wrote:

The 600 year discrepancy between the so-called founding (2400 BC) of Egypt by Ham's progeny vs. the Unification leading to the First Dynasty (3000 BC) is a colossal error of biblical proportion! And it doesn't even take into consideration the absence of the many hundreds of years of Predynastic Egypt and massive prehistoric Egypt!

The Church claims the text of the Book of Abraham is a historical account that contains a genuine history of how Egypt was founded. Nothing could be further from the truth! We KNOW (I bear solemn testimony) backed by science and Egyptology that Egypt's 1st Dynasty occurred some 600 years prior to the time Noah supposedly unloaded his ark with all those animals for the new world to feast on! Smith's accounting is fatally flawed. The math doesn't work. Math does not lie! People lie!

To put into perspective how bad the 600 year discrepancy is -- imagine, if you will, Lehi leaving Jerusalem to hunt in the wilderness for a short time and then returning to discover the Christ child born in Bethlehem!

And there you have it. Go figure. Math doesn't lie, people do.
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Historical Genocide

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Shulem wrote: The 600 year discrepancy between the so-called founding (2400 BC) of Egypt by Ham's progeny vs. the Unification leading to the First Dynasty (3000 BC) is a colossal error of biblical proportion! And it doesn't even take into consideration the absence of the many hundreds of years of Predynastic Egypt and massive prehistoric Egypt!

Mormon apologists that stand by the Book of Abraham as a historically accurate account of how Egypt came to be have some explaining to do. Actually, they don't. How can they explain 600 years away? We simply can't ignore 600 years!

Imagine ignoring the last 600 years of our own history? Where would we be? Columbus would never have sailed the ocean blue and America would never have existed. You and I are not! We don't exist because 600 years of history never happened. That is not only denying history but it's historical genocide which is exactly what the Book of Abraham is guilty of.

Shame on Gee and Muhlestein for claiming the Book of Abraham is a genuine historical account of Egypt's Making.

It's time to set the record straight! The Book of Abraham is not an authentic record. Period. End of story.
Last edited by Shulem on Sat Nov 14, 2020 7:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Historical Genocide

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Shulem wrote: Mormon apologists that stand by the Book of Abraham as a historically accurate account of how Egypt came to be have some explaining to do. Actually, they don't. How can they explain 600 years away? We simply can't ignore 600 years!

This is more than a little discrepancy or a blip on a historical time line -- it's a major disaster of colossal proportion! It doesn't require a great deal of intelligence to realize the enormous error contained in the opening definitive statements pertaining to Book of Abraham history. The very foundation of how Egyptian history is alleged to have begun in the Book of Abraham is proven wrong from the get-go -- the moment the Book of Abraham bull charges out of the pen we can instantly calculate that it's a forgery -- the wrong answer. The math is wrong. It's as simple as that! You cannot fix bad math. You can't explain it away using parallels or symbolic excuses. In the end, math is math, period.

So, I want to make it perfectly clear that this is the SMOKING GUN in proving that the Book of Abraham is not a genuine historical record for how Egypt came to be. Smith's work was another concocted story hatched from his mind in order to fool the world into thinking he was a prophet and Egyptian translator. He was neither!

Smith was dependent on using biblical chronology in both the Book of Mormon and the Book of Abraham. Smith's hands were tied insomuch as that is all he had to work with and the people of his times automatically accepted the biblical chronology as absolute truth. But we know better today thanks to science and modern methods used to determine dated history. We know that the chronicles of biblical dating is mythical in nature, i.e. Shem lived to be 600 years old is nothing more than myth.

Accepting the Book of Abraham as a genuine historical account is like embracing Newtonian astronomy and rejecting Einstein's great discoveries! It's like insisting that the earth is flat. No amount faith can make the earth flat anymore than faith can make the Book of Abraham true.
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Re: Pearl of Great Price Central Facsimile 1 as a Sacrifice Scene

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The Church does little if anything to resolve the false historical claims made by the Book of Abraham as it clashes with modern Egyptology. Elder Andrew Jenson served as the Assistant Church Historian for 42 years and had this to say in General Conference:
Elder Andrew Jenson, Conference Oct 1912 wrote:
Years ago I visited the Great Pyramid of Egypt, that grand stone structure standing so bold and beautiful in the Valley of the Nile, and as I stood upon that great structure, looked down upon the site of the ancient city of Memphis, and took in the view up and down the Nile valley, these thoughts came to me. "Who built these great pyramids? Who were the first people in this land?" The Pearl of Great Price tells us a little in regard to this matter, but not enough. We want more revelation before we can know who built the Great Pyramid of Egypt. Learned men may write books like the "Miracle in Stone," but it is not sufficient ; God shall in His own due time open the heavens and tell us more about it. At present we are at sea, figuratively speaking.

The Book of Abraham tells us that Ham's progeny discovered the land of Egypt and that Pharaoh became the first ruler. This occurred after the Flood (2400 BC) and before the confounding of tongues at the tower of Babel which implies that the first Egyptians spoke ADAMIC. Church Historian Andrew Jenson queries with "who built the Great Pyramid of Egypt". Let's appeal to authority and ask an Egyptologist when the Great Pyramid was built. Elder Jenson wants a revelation (futher knowledge) so let John Gee give it to him:

John Gee, please check the box that best dates the building of Kufu's Pyramid as it coincides with biblical history in which the Book of Abraham and the Church ascribe to:

[ ] Shem begat Arphaxad 2 years after the flood
[ ] Arphaxad age 35 begat Salah
[ ] Salah age 30 begat Eber
[ ] Eber age 34 begat Peleg
[ ] Peleg age 30 begat Reu
[ ] Reu age 32 begat Serug
[ ] Serug age 30 begat Nahor
[ ] Nahor age 29 begat Terah
[ ] Terah age 70 begat Abram

Hint: Khufu reigned in 2589–2566 BC
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Pyramids of Gizeh

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It's time for Church:

THIS WAS ACTUALLY PREACHED AT THE PULPIT IN GENERAL CONFERENCE BY A MEMBER OF THE FIRST PRESIDENCY AND SERVES TO REFLECT COMMON BELIEFS HAD BY THE CHURCH IN HIS DAY:
President Anthony W. Ivins, First Counselor of the First Presidency, Conference Oct 1931 wrote:
I hold in my hand. The title of the book is "Our Bible in Stone." The author is Francis M. Darter of Los Angeles, a member of the Church, in good standing, an experienced engineer and a mathematician of ability. It treats principally the erection, symbolism and prophetic character of the pyramid of Gizeh, or in Greek, Cheops. Various other applications so far as the name is concerned have been applied to this structure. Because of its superiority over all other like structures it has come to be known and referred to as the Great Pyramid of Gizeh. The Great Pyramid of Gizeh is situated in Egypt, about ten miles west of the city of Cairo, and one hundred and twenty-five miles south from the city of Alexandria, which was founded by Alexander the Great 332 B. C. It is bounded on the west by the Libyan desert, and is therefore in the borders of the land. It is one of a group of nine other similar structures, which are known as the Pyramids of Gizeh.

It is a noteworthy fact that while many pyramids are found in Egypt, none is known to exist in other parts of the world except in America, where many such structures are known to have been erected, but no other pyramids can be compared with the unusual structure to which my remarks are to be confined. The orientation of the great pile, as it applies to the points of the compass, and the accuracy with which its proportions are related one to the other, are a marvel to those who have made a study of it.

The relationship of the Pyramid to modern mathematics, by which scholars have endeavored to fix the date of its construction, indicates that in its erection the builders were familiar with and governed largely by the movement of the heavenly bodies, which science the moderns refer to as astronomy. Sir John Herschel, from astronomical calculation, places the construction of the Pyramid at 2160 B. C., and Professor Piazza Smyth at 2170 B. C. Basil Stewart, in his recently published book, "The Witness of the Great Pyramid," after a careful study of the application of astronomy in its construction, says : "The Great Pyramid therefore may be considered the earliest known record in existence wherein is embodied the fact of the immense cycle known as
the precession of the equinoxes."


The magnitude of the structure may be best understood by comparing it with something with which we are familiar. The area covered by the base of the structure is in excess of thirteen acres, or three acres larger than the block upon which this building stands, which is ten acres. The height of the Pyramid is 485 feet above the base, or more than twice the height of the temple to the east of us. The bulk of the building is more than ninety million cubic feet, and sufficient stone was used in its construction to build a wall four feet high and two feet thick, twenty-two hundred miles in length, or which would reach from Chicago to San Francisco.

Who were the builders of the Pyramid no one knows. Khufu (Cheops, in Greek) is given credit for having been the builder. This personage has been identified by some students as Seth, the son of Adam; others give Enoch, the son of Jared, credit for having been the builder ; others Shem, the Son of Noah ; while some believe that Melchizedek, that mysterious personage to whom Abraham paid tithes, and whom some of these scholars identify as the Patriarch Job, was the person who constructed it.

Herodotus, who lived nearly five hundred years before the birth of Christ, and who is referred to as the father of history, knew of the existence of the Great Pyramid, and wrote concerning it. He says that the Egyptians detested the memory of the kings who caused their fathers to erect these structures, and besides compelled them to close their own temples, and for this reason they were not willing to mention their names, but called the two first pyramids erected after Philition, a shepherd who fed his cattle about the place.

Manetho, himself an Egyptian, wrote as follows:

"There came from the east, in a strange manner, men of an ignoble race, who had the confidence to invade our country, and easily subdued it by their power without a battle. All this invading nation was styled Hyksos, that is, 'Shepherd Kings'."

He then relates how they departed for Judea and built a city there named Jerusalem. This he says was long before the exodus of the Israelitish people from Egypt under Moses. It is known that Hyksos, or Shepherd Kings, dominated Egypt at the time that Jacob and his family went into that country, during the period when Joseph ruled as vice regent of the reigning Pharaoh, and it was among this people that Joseph chose his wife, Asenath, who became the mother of his sons Ephraim and Manasseh.

The first definite suggestion that the Great Pyramid was other than the tomb of a king, or other merely temporal monument, was in a work written by John Taylor in London in 1859. He conceived the idea that it was a divinely planned and constructed monument, designed to be a witness to the human race, showing in advance the history of mankind from the creation to the period of the second coming of our Lord, who would establish dominion over the earth upon which we dwell and usher in a reign of righteousness and peace.

At a later date C. Piazza Smyth, astronomer royal of Scotland, wrote upon the subject, agreeing with the conclusions reached by Taylor. Sir W. M. Flinders Petrie, Professor John Edgar, D. Davidson, Joseph A. Seiss, Sir John Herschel, Basil Stewart and many other scholarly men, after making a study of the subject, became advocates of the theory advanced by Taylor, that the Great Pyramid has something more than human in its construction and symbolism.

For ages after its construction the interior of the Great Pyramid remained a sealed mystery. Obsessed with the belief that within the great pile hordes of treasure had been concealed, men finally determined to penetrate and explore it. A tunnel was driven into the structure far towards the center, but the work was so difficult that it was about to be discontinued when the workmen unexpectedly broke into the passage-way, and the mystery was solved.

Nothing was found to indicate that the Pyramid had been constructed to be the tomb of a king, as was usually the case with the smaller structures of like architecture. It was discovered that the original builders had constructed a series of passages or galleries in the interior of the Pyramid, the entrance to which had been concealed and so strongly closed that it became necessary to blast around it in order that entrance might be made possible. This entrance is on the north side of the structure, and the first gallery or passage descends from the opening at an angle of about twenty-six degrees to a point far below the floor of the Pyramid into the solid rock upon which it stands, where it terminates in a chamber which is called the Pit.

A short distance from the entrance, at the same angle, another passageway leads upward and communicates with two other chambers, one referred to as the Queen's Chamber, near the center, and the other, higher up, as the King's Chamber.

It is the accuracy with which these galleries are constructed and certain markings and steps which are placed at intervals along the way, that have convinced scholars who have made careful study of the subject that the Pyramid was intended by its builders to represent the history of our race, as has been stated, from the remote past to the
time of the second coming of our Lord.

Discussion of the symbolism of the Great Pyramid is not a new thing in the Church. I well remember that Orson Pratt, during his lifetime, lectured on the subject and made mathematical calculations by which he reached the conclusion that certain measurements of the galleries and markings which were upon them had reference to the opening of the Gospel dispensation in which we live, and the final consummation of the purposes of our Father in heaven, by which peace would come to the world and happiness to mankind.

I remember also that his calculations brought conclusions which differed from others who had made a study of the subject, but were in the main the same. Soon after the World War students of the Pyramid announced that according to their theory, and it is only a theory, the year 1928 would witness the beginning of a period of tribulation which would continue with increasing intensity until 1936, and would bring sorrow and mourning to the inhabitants of the earth. At that date their symbols and measurements bring us to the King's Chamber, and the record of the Pyramid, if it has a record, will cease with the advent of our Lord and the establishment of a period of peace, happiness and good will among men.

The Church has not at any time, nor does it now, accept the conclusions of pyramid students to be definitely correct. In fact there is great doubt that the arbitrary basis upon which their calculations and conclusions are founded is correct.

I do not wish to be understood to say that they are in error. Neither do I say that they are correct. But this much I desire to declare to this congregation : While I have not given profound study to the theories of men regarding the origin and symbolism of this miracle in stone, I have read and studied it in a general way and have found nothing in it to convince me that the record of the Great Pyramid definitely forecasts coming events.

The Church does not depend upon Pyramids of Gizeh nor the conclusions of scientific investigators, however helpful they may sometimes be in the study of these questions, for an interpretation of the scripture which refers to the return of Christ our Lord to earth and the millennium of peace and good-will which is to be enjoyed under his personal administration.

President Ivins makes a final point in stating that the Church does not depend "on the conclusions of scientific investigators" to settle issues about Egyptology as it relates to the scriptures because the Church and their scriptures trump Egyptology.
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Re: Pearl of Great Price Central Facsimile 1 as a Sacrifice Scene

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The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is two-faced and talks out of both sides of its mouth trying to please both ends of the spectrum -- but both ends can't be true. It's one or the other. The Church is pulling a fast one, trying to have it both ways, and hoping to satisfy everyone. This is deceptive and is evidence that the Church is not willing to take a stand but will juggle balls and move goalposts hoping the members are too stupid to raise objections and demand an answer about whether Egypt predated the Flood or came after according to the Book of Abraham.

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/bd/egypt?lang=eng wrote:
Egypt

The great pyramids are the tombs of early kings belonging to what is generally called the Old Empire. The pyramid builders, who reigned at Memphis at least 3,000 years before Christ, were followed by a series of princes who reigned in Thebes. This is known as the Middle Empire.
OR
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/the-pearl-of-great-price-student-manual-2018/the-book-of-abraham?lang=eng wrote:
The Book of Abraham

Enoch (approximately 3000 BC), Noah and the Flood (approximately 2400 BC), and the tower of Babel (approximately 2200 BC) preceded Abraham’s time.
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Re: Pearl of Great Price Central Facsimile 1 as a Sacrifice Scene

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Shulem wrote: The Book of Abraham tells us that Ham's progeny discovered the land of Egypt and that Pharaoh became the first ruler. This occurred after the Flood (2400 BC) and before the confounding of tongues at the tower of Babel which implies that the first Egyptians spoke ADAMIC.
That seems to be exactly what the Church taught even before the Book of Abraham was formerly published:
LATTER DAY SAINTS' MESSENGER AND ADVOCATE KIRTLAND, OHIO, MARCH, 1837 wrote:
ANCIENT HISTORY. No. 2.

EGYPT.

The antiquity of this empire is supposed to be very great. The Mosaic writings represent it as a great and flourishing kingdom four hundred and thirty years after the flood. Indeed, from the nature of the country the presumption is, that it was settled and became a flourishing kingdom or empire soon after the deluge.

The Church today has a real problem attempting to place Egyptian history before the flood and maintain a cohesive semblance with the biblical time line and Smith's precious 7,000 year game plan (D&C 77).
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Re: Pearl of Great Price Central Facsimile 1 as a Sacrifice Scene

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Shulem wrote: John Gee, do you really believe that the first ruler of Egypt was the grandson of Ham? Are you willing to dismiss Smith's D&C 77 and the biblical chronology of when Noah supposedly lived so that Ham's kid can rule Predynastic Egypt? How about you write a paper on that and submit it to your colleagues? Better yet, let me review it first!

How is John Gee going to squeeze Joseph Smith's 6,000 years of human history into a chronology that makes sense? That would be impossible. Gee is stuck and can't justify the historical claims made in the Book of Abraham, chapter 1. I'm afraid for Gee, the work has already been done by Smith and Cowdery so any attempt to squash their precious 6,000 year history would be met with excommunication.
THE EVENING AND THE MORNING STAR Independence, Mo. August, 1832 wrote:
PRESENT AGE OF THE WORLD.

There are so many different opinions upon, as well as various periods to the age of the world, that we fear the truth of the matter will be believed by few. Whether by the commentators upon the sacred writings, or by the clergy, the term of four thousand and four years, was put down as the exact time from the beginning till the birth of the Savior, we shall not pretend to say, but content ourselves by stating, that 4004 years, which is the present Christian calculation, added to the current year of our Lord, makes but 5836 years since the commencement of time in this world. But upon collecting the passed periods that the Lord has been pleased to measure out to his servants, by the prophets, we find a very different amount of years from the beginning. We compute thus:

Chapters. Years.

Gen. 5 & 8 From Adam to the end of the flood, ... 1656

" 11. From the flood to Abram, .............. 292

" 21. From Abram to Isaac, .................. 100

" 25. From Isaac to Jacob, ................... 60

" 47. From Jacob's birth to his entering Egypt, 130

Ex. 12. The children of Israel in Egypt, ..... 430

From their departure out of Egypt till the birth of the Savior.

----------------------------------------------------------------- 1491

Years before Christ, ................. 4159

Since his birth, ..................... 1832

From the beginning till now, ......... 5991

Deduct, .............................. 5836

Difference, .......................... 155
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7,000 years?

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D&C 77:6,7 wrote:
Revelation given to Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Hiram, Ohio, about March 1832.

Q. What are we to understand by the book which John saw, which was sealed on the back with seven seals?
A. We are to understand that it contains the revealed will, mysteries, and the works of God; the hidden things of his economy concerning this earth during the seven thousand years of its continuance, or its temporal existence.

Q. What are we to understand by the seven seals with which it was sealed?
A. We are to understand that the first seal contains the things of the first thousand years, and the second also of the second thousand years, and so on until the seventh.
This is the summation of Smith's "REVELATION" of the age of human life on earth beginning with the 1st millennium of Adam as the first man to the end of the 7th millennium when Christ rules the earth.

Members of the Church today have a choice. They may choose to accept Smith's revelation of the age of man in conjunction with biblical chronology and the so-called historical account of the Book of Abraham OR they can reject Smith's revelations altogether and embrace science and modern Egyptology!

John Gee, what say ye?

I reject Joseph Smith and accept science and Egyptology.

:smile:
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Math is math

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Shulem wrote: Math is math! This is where the Book of Abraham is fatally flawed and proven false.

Smith understood the absolute principle that math is math and that it's based on cold calculated truths that are ever constant. Unfortunately for Smith, the foundation in which he depended was wrong so the formula he used to solve and reach his conclusion was riddled with error -- fatally flawed!
TIMES AND SEASONS CITY OF NAUVOO, ILL. November 1, 1843. wrote: Now for the question. How much are one and one? Two. How much is one from two? One. Very well, one question, or problem is solved by figures. Now let me ask one for facts: was there ever such a place on the earth as Egypt? Geography says yes; ancient history says yes; and the Bible says yes. So three witnesses have solved that question.
Smith relied on his chronology for ancient Egyptian history by using the bible and in doing so he believed it solved the problem. But we know Smith's answer is wrong which the Church to this day continues to believe and is still wrong.

Then in the next paragraph, Smith used his bad math, unreliable information, and so-called revelation in falsely dating his mummies:
TIMES AND SEASONS CITY OF NAUVOO, ILL. November 1, 1843. wrote:Besides these tangible facts, so easily proven and demonstrated by simple rules of testimony unimpeached, the art (now lost) of embalming human bodies, and preserving them in the catacombs of Egypt, whereby men, women and children as mummies, after a lapse of near three thousand five hundred years, come forth among the living, and although dead, the papyrus which has lived in their bosoms, unharmed, speaks for them, in language like the sound of an earthquake: Ecce veritas! Ecce cadaveros. Behold the truth! Behold the mummies! .... The spirit of prophesy is the testimony of Jesus.
No, no, and no! Smith's mummies were not 3,500 years old and neither did he have the spirit of prophecy to say such nonsense! He was a false prophet.
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