Who is GAZ

[_Gazelam]

Porter,

You ask: What about people of other faiths with the same exact experience?
Is their experience false? Is yours? Are they both?

So far in my wanderings I have yet to meet anyone who has experienced anything similar. I assumed what occured was common among members of the church, but even then when I ask members of the church to share their testimonies it is a rare occurence that they had a strong witness of the Holy Ghost. I know that some of the people I taught on my mission had something similar occur, because they not only asked to be baptised, but demanded it, and this after they prayed to know if the church was true. I know that it was the Holy Ghost that night, because since that time I have felt the presence of the Holy Ghost to a lesser degree and the feeling and presence is the same.

Gods house is a house of order. How many paths does a God of order have that lead to him? Is there some other plan of salvation? are there different Christs with different Laws and ordinances than those that have been the same through the ages?


Coffeecat,

But I get to be the QUEEN BITCH

I would hope you would think better of yourself than that. Your capable of far better things.

Gaz

[_Runtu]

So far in my wanderings I have yet to meet anyone who has experienced anything similar. I assumed what occured was common among members of the church, but even then when I ask members of the church to share their testimonies it is a rare occurence that they had a strong witness of the Holy Ghost. I know that some of the people I taught on my mission had something similar occur, because they not only asked to be baptised, but demanded it, and this after they prayed to know if the church was true. I know that it was the Holy Ghost that night, because since that time I have felt the presence of the Holy Ghost to a lesser degree and the feeling and presence is the same.

I'd say I had that same experience. I was in the Salt Lake Temple right before my mission, and just like the previous week, when I had gone through for the first time, I was feeling really uncomfortable, what with the throat-slashing penalties and the weird chants. I was worried that I was about to spend the next 2 years of my life on something that was totally wrong. If this was the temple of God, why did I feel so bad in there?

I prayed mightily all the way through the ceremony. During the lecture at the veil in the terrestrial room (they don't do that anymore), I suddenly felt some power course through my entire body. It was an amazing experience. At the time I was sure I was feeling exactly what you said: the presence of God in the room. The guy next to me was looking at me kind of funny because I was shaking and crying. This experience ensured that I never had any issues with the temple after that.

Fast forward about 10 years, when I was posting on a.r.m. I asked a Calvinist poster how he knew God existed. To my surprise, he described the same kind of event in his life in almost exactly the same terms. He spoke of a presence much greater than himself, and he knew God was with him and guiding him. How could this be? I thought. Since then, I've met several people (none of them LDS until you) who described the same thing. A Catholic friend of mine had the same kind of experience during the despairing days following her divorce. A Bangladeshi Muslim I knew at work told me of his having resolved years of doubt in the same way during his time in college. And so on. We weren't unique.

Gods house is a house of order. How many paths does a God of order have that lead to him? Is there some other plan of salvation? are there different Christs with different Laws and ordinances than those that have been the same through the ages?

Of course, the assumption here is that such experiences come from God. Given that people of different faiths have similar experience, it's possible that there might be something else at work. I'm not dismissing your experience anymore than I'm dismissing mine. But have you ever considered that the experience might not be what you think it was?

[_Gazelam]

Well I can say this, my experience was in direct answer to my question. Answered almost immediately.

Also, the Holy Ghost will bring comfort and knowledge to those outside the church. Notice that those who pray to know if the missionaries are speaking the truth, and if the Book of Mormon is true, are not members of the church, and they receive answers.

Christ is God, this much we know is true, and the Holy Spirit will always testify of that. The question then is, where is Christs gospel to be found? Who has authority to seal his name upon us and teach us his gospel. This is why people are asked to ask God the very specific yes or no question as to whether or not the Book of Mormon is true. If God reveals to individuals that the Book of Mormon is true, then we have a revelation to base our faith upon. Then we know of a pure source to find the Gospel and to reveal further to us the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

It does us no good to base our faith on an impure source. We all must go to the fountain head and recieve revelation for ourselves. And that is the gospel of Jesus Christ and his Servant Joseph Smith. We all are intended to be Prophets.

Gaz

[_harmony]

It does us no good to base our faith on an impure source. We all must go to the fountain head and recieve revelation for ourselves. And that is the gospel of Jesus Christ and his Servant Joseph Smith. We all are intended to be Prophets.

Gaz

On the contrary, the fountain head and source of our personal revelation is God our Father, not Joseph Smith. Suggesting such a thing is blasphemous, and all the prophets, including Joseph and all the subsequent modern prophet, would be appalled at what you just said. I hope you're just having a slight problem expressing yourself, and that the above paragraph does not accurately convey your beliefs.

[_MormonMendacity]

I had a powerful witness of the Holy Ghost that these things are true. Not a simple burning in the bosum, but the actual presence of the Holy Ghost...

Wow! Me, too! Cool!

[_Gazelam]

I meant that that is the Teaching of Christ and Joseph. Gospel = the word of God, or teachings. The intention of all the prophets is that we learn to receive and understand revelation.

Gaz

[_msnobody]

Well I can say this, my experience was in direct answer to my question. Answered almost immediately.

Also, the Holy Ghost will bring comfort and knowledge to those outside the church. Notice that those who pray to know if the missionaries are speaking the truth, and if the Book of Mormon is true, are not members of the church, and they receive answers.

Christ is God, this much we know is true, and the Holy Spirit will always testify of that. The question then is, where is Christs gospel to be found? Who has authority to seal his name upon us and teach us his gospel. This is why people are asked to ask God the very specific yes or no question as to whether or not the Book of Mormon is true. If God reveals to individuals that the Book of Mormon is true, then we have a revelation to base our faith upon. Then we know of a pure source to find the Gospel and to reveal further to us the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

It does us no good to base our faith on an impure source. We all must go to the fountain head and recieve revelation for ourselves. And that is the gospel of Jesus Christ and his Servant Joseph Smith. We all are intended to be Prophets.

Gaz

The Book of Mormon and Moroni's promise is idolatry.

[_Gazelam]

Please explain

[_desert_vulture]

I had a powerful witness of the Holy Ghost that these things are true. Not a simple burning in the bosum, but the actual presence of the Holy Ghost, therefore that is to say I felt the presence of God himself in the room in responce to prayer. This is a Good thing in that I now have a firm foundation on which to base my faith, or rather a place to view my faith from. It is only a bad thing in the sence that I will in fact be held accountable for all my actions from that point, because a witness has been given and "Where much is given, much is required"
Gaz

I do not want to disparage this experience of yours in any way. However, I would like to say that I had an experience very similar to what you describe. I described it in this thread on the New Order Mormon board: http://www.aimoo.com/forum/postview.cfm?id=319220&startcat=274&start=21&CategoryID=11900&ThreadID=2490443
I can honestly say that upon reconsideration of my interpretation of the meaning of the experience, it is quite possible that I read things into it that weren't intended. I still feel that God communicated to me, but I feel that the message may have been similar to those who have received NDE's and spiritual awakenings.

The type of spiritual experience I received has been studied extensively and was talked about quite prominently in the book "Beyond the Light" by P.M.H. Atwater in Chapter 10, pages 162 and 163. It states "The entrance/activation of Christ Consciousness is sometimes called Baptism of The Holy Spirit, and is characterized by descriptions such as: being struck as if by lightning or by a blinding flash; being consumed as if by fire or great heat; being torn as if by an explosion or great wind; being immersed as if by heavy rain or flood swells. The spiritual force seems to enter the individual's body from outside the self, from "heaven," God On High, or through some saintly emissary or angel. The sudden descent or passage of the illuminating force is said to come only when the recipient is ready and worthy. It usually enters through the top of the head or through the heart center and fills the entire body. This activation of divine spirit, energizes and illumines, thus transforming the individual's concerns from mundane to spiritual....

After discovering that many other people such as Charles Finney had experienced a similar enlightening, I realized that many of my initial interpretations may have been influenced by confirmation bias. http://www.gospeltruth.net/lawsonbio.htm Anyhow, I now take a more universalist approach to my experience and interpret it to mean a more generalized love shown by God for members of all religions.

[_OUT OF MY MISERY]

i am pretty sure that Desert Vulture is true and whatever he is true about or too

I feel the presence of My God whereever I go...I actually worship my cat...like the ancient egyptians