Video Games: A serious lack

[_keene]

As part of running a small business (several, actually), find that it is very important to build trust and teamwork with your partners. My business partner is very active, loves sports, but quite frankly, I'm a geek. Sports just aren't my thing.

We settled on Video Games as a way to build up this relational characteristic...

But we ran into some problems.

When did Video Games stop creating cooperative play? It used to be, back in the hey-day of the arcade, you could hop in on anyone playing a game, and help them out. Contra, Bubble Bobble, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, even the Simpsons all had the cooperative gameplay. New games these days, simply don't.

Other than a very select few, such as the newest Splinter Cell games, no game has any cooperative play mode. It's either competition, or online team play.

One genre that I feel greatly lacks coop is the RPG. Everyone wants it, as evidenced by the huge boost in MMORPG's that has come out recently, but no console RPG has any way to play multiplayer, besides MMO.

And, to be honest, MMO's suck. They have no story, and character development is so BORING that I can't even bring myself to care a whit whether my avatar dies or not. Not to mention the HORRIBLE SLOWNESS of it all.

Thus, I propose a new style of game. The cooperative action-rpg. By blending gameplay from Splinter Cell, Zelda, and Final Fantasy, I want to create a cooperative, story-driven game, allowing two players to rely on skill, trust, and communication, to bring to life a rich game experience that to this day cannot be compared.

Back in the day, there was a great little game called Secret of Mana. It was quite popular, and had ALMOST what I want in this new genre. It was an RPG like any other, but at any point throughout the game, a second or third player could jump in and take control of one of the characters. The only problem I see with this game is that it allows a single player the option of going through the game with no issues -- there's no need for teamwork, nothing the extra players can do that the A.I. already can't.

I also hope to create a new generation of gaming, where Coop play is the norm, not the exception.

So, what I ask from you is, what do you look for in a video game? What would be required in a game for you to not only want to play it, but to bring over a friend (or family) to play it with you from start to finish?

[_Dr. Shades]

That's a tough order to fill.

Other than RPGs back when I was in Junior High, I don't think I've ever participated in that sort of thing.

When it comes to video games, I can't shake my roots: The old coin-op, single-joystick games with a button or two are still my style. My all-time favorite was Discs of Tron, followed by Black Widow, then Tokio, and finally Mystic Marathon. You can't find ANY of these games anywhere nowadays, not even online or in nostalgia packs. But I digress.

To fit your bill, a hybridization of the two ought to be looked into. Specifically, have a game wherein both players operate a single Apache attack helicopter: One person pilots the aircraft and fires the fixed missiles, the other person locks the guided missles on target and operates the swivelling chain-gun (this is how it works in real life, by the way).

[_Gazelam]

I like the sound of that shades, but maybe expand on that and use Mechs.



Even better, a combination of the two. Choose your own vehicle. Perhaps if it was in a MMOLG a single player could use body armor only, in order to pilot the big vehicles it would require two players? Weapons and engine upgrades would introduce reasons for continued play, as well as endless customization of paint and logos on the sides of the vehicles. Guild logos, guild garages, talents specs like weapon and engine repair......

Gaz

[_asbestosman]

As part of running a small business (several, actually), find that it is very important to build trust and teamwork with your partners. My business partner is very active, loves sports, but quite frankly, I'm a geek. Sports just aren't my thing.

I'm similar (except for the small business thing). However, I'm usually fine playing reflex sports such as ping-pong, and fussball or even something like bowling or minature golf.

We settled on Video Games as a way to build up this relational characteristic...

I like that option too. Not long ago my Elder's Quorum had a video game night.

And, to be honest, MMO's suck. They have no story, and character development is so BORING that I can't even bring myself to care a whit whether my avatar dies or not. Not to mention the HORRIBLE SLOWNESS of it all.

I can't stand MMO's because of the time commitment, and the subscription fees. If there's no development then you've forever killed any possibility I'd want to try one.

Thus, I propose a new style of game. The cooperative action-rpg. By blending gameplay from Splinter Cell, Zelda, and Final Fantasy, I want to create a cooperative, story-driven game, allowing two players to rely on skill, trust, and communication, to bring to life a rich game experience that to this day cannot be compared.

Back in the day, there was a great little game called Secret of Mana. It was quite popular, and had ALMOST what I want in this new genre. It was an RPG like any other, but at any point throughout the game, a second or third player could jump in and take control of one of the characters. The only problem I see with this game is that it allows a single player the option of going through the game with no issues -- there's no need for teamwork, nothing the extra players can do that the A.I. already can't.

Yes, Secret of Mana was a wonderful game. The sequel, Seiken Densetsu 3 was also nice. Nintendo also has a multiplayer Zelda out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Legend_of_Zelda:_Four_Swords_Adventures

Of course there's always Dungeon Siege 2 or Diablo 2.

I also hope to create a new generation of gaming, where Coop play is the norm, not the exception.

I would love that.

So, what I ask from you is, what do you look for in a video game? What would be required in a game for you to not only want to play it, but to bring over a friend (or family) to play it with you from start to finish?

Chrono Trigger was one of my favorites. I also really enjoyed the Lunar series. Xenogears was a lot of fun as well. One possible problem with many RPGs is that the story tends to be linear. On the other hand, I can feel overwhelmed with stories that aren't linear. Perhaps there could some elements that depend on timing. This may even be motivation for making it multiplayer as it may take you too long to try going something alone and thus cost you a prescious opportunity (a weapon, spell, information, or even whole destiny).

Perhaps one of the minigames could have a multiplayer part where it is impossible to come in first place without having a second player specifically work to hinder a particular character while you focus on winning overall. Perhaps that minigame could be racing, snowboarding, or maybe even the suggestions of Shades or Gazelam. Maybe if you don't have anyone else playing, then people in town won't trust you as much because you're alone. Maybe you'll even have them make fun of you for being a loner. There are all kinds of multiplayer puzzles and activities that could be put into an RPG.

I like the SoM style except I wish the menu system woultn't always pause the gameplay for the other player. At the very least this is distracting when trying to cast spells. I also wish that it would be easier to move away from other characters.

Another thing to keep in mind is that if I want people to jump in during the middle of a game, they may not want to have the game spoiled for them. They may also want to have enough background about where I am so as not to be confused. Furthermore I think we both agree that the story should be engaging instead of bland. This can make for very difficult design goals. Generally when I play multiplayer games it's something quick say-half an hour and then a week goes by. RPGs are different from most games because of the continuity of the story. Getting a friend to commit to play the game can be difficult for me because my schedule (and those of others) are unpredictable. A decision for that has to be made, but I suppose in the interest of the story (and your goals) it might be best to find some other way to have friends work out schedules. Perhaps the ability to save often would help as well as the ability to power up independently (but only to a limited extent) while not advancing in the story independently. Or perhaps in powering up you will also give your friends experience too. Maybe you can even switch characters as in SoM.

[_Negative]

Ok, I have a few questions.

Is this game supposed to be console based or would it be PC?

Are you thinking of a game that you sit with your buddies and play (console style) or are looking for something that you can play online?

If I understand your definition of co-op most FPS games (Counter-Strike, Call of Duty, HALO, etc) are co-op games. You can connect to a server and play with a bunch of people but you don't have to rely on them or even communicate with them if you don't want to. (Unless you enter competitive play. That's different.)

I do have some interesting ideas for games but I'd like to have a better idea of what you're trying to do first.

[_keene]

Ok, I have a few questions.

Is this game supposed to be console based or would it be PC?

Are you thinking of a game that you sit with your buddies and play (console style) or are looking for something that you can play online?

If I understand your definition of co-op most FPS games (Counter-Strike, Call of Duty, HALO, etc) are co-op games. You can connect to a server and play with a bunch of people but you don't have to rely on them or even communicate with them if you don't want to. (Unless you enter competitive play. That's different.)

I do have some interesting ideas for games but I'd like to have a better idea of what you're trying to do first.

I would think console games would be better, although PC ports are easily an option.

I want communication between the players to not only be encouraged, but required, very similar to the way the new splinter cell co-op games were designed. I don't like the current co-op model where co-op is basically single player with help, ala FPS.

asbestosman:
Thanks for the feedback, it definitely raises some new challenges, and from where I'm at right now, I don't really have the skills to work through them. But I'd still like to know what they are so I can structure my game plan to take care of them.

I was also thinking that with this co-op RPG, perhaps it would be beneficial to have each character go through their own mini-single player sections, either to power up, or to get backstory for only that character.. That way, when two players can't get time to play together, there are still things they can do on their own until they can meet up again. Complications? Possibilities?

[_Gazelam]

well I was thinking that to make it interesting make it a global war situation, with factions . Maybe make an oriental, a british, an american, latino factions. Monthly updates could move borders and escalate, scale down conflict. reward system could be based on changeing monthly missions. rewards for victorys and capture of foreign gear. capture the flag at a foreign base?

dependence on others heightened by skills. repair of machines, repair of armor, ammunition reloading. all things on battlefield can be scavenged. scavenging a skill. cooking a skill needed to keep or boost abilities at max.

different types of vehilces have damage and speed bonuses. larger vehicles like tanks, helicopters and mechs require two players.

Body armor for personal use ranges from light to heavy, inflicting run speed. restrictions on body armor for vehicles. personal body armor repair and creation seperate from vehicle armor skill and repair and creation.

battletech meets warcraft meets halo

[_Dr. Shades]

Asbestosman got me thinking:

How about a deadly racing game, where one player is the driver and the other is the gunner?

PICTURE THIS: A 2-man armored snowmobile where one player drives/steers downhill while the second operates a swivelling chain gun. The only condition to win is to cross the finish line first, so the first player will HAVE to avoid trees, avoid boulders, properly navigate turns and banks, etc. The second player will have to shoot at the other vehicle(s), causing it/them to veer off course, lose parts of the tracks or treads, crash, etc. in order to slow them down.

This way, neither player can possibly function without the other. 2-man teams/4 players minimum.

Damn! Now I'm wanting to play this as-yet-hypothetical game right now. . .

[_keene]

Asbestosman got me thinking:

How about a deadly racing game, where one player is the driver and the other is the gunner?

PICTURE THIS: A 2-man armored snowmobile where one player drives/steers downhill while the second operates a swivelling chain gun. The only condition to win is to cross the finish line first, so the first player will HAVE to avoid trees, avoid boulders, properly navigate turns and banks, etc. The second player will have to shoot at the other vehicle(s), causing it/them to veer off course, lose parts of the tracks or treads, crash, etc. in order to slow them down.

This way, neither player can possibly function without the other. 2-man teams/4 players minimum.

Damn! Now I'm wanting to play this as-yet-hypothetical game right now. . .

Mario Kart Double Dash.

There's the thing though, I want it to be VERY story and character driven. I can't get into games for the games sake. Otherwise I'll play a level or two and get board. That's why RPG's have dominance in my library.

[_Dr. Shades]

Mario Kart Double Dash.

So what does the non-driver do?

There's the thing though, I want it to be VERY story and character driven. I can't get into games for the games sake. Otherwise I'll play a level or two and get board. That's why RPG's have dominance in my library.

You mean RPGs as in the physical books (as opposed to WoW-style video games), right?