Murder among the Mormons

[Philo Sofee]

They only skim the Church's response to the Salamander letter. I think there was a very brief scene with Oaks in it, reading some kind of response but I don't recall what it was. They do make the Church look a little silly. GBH bought up documents to suppress them while leaders made a flurry of contradictory statements about them. Turley jumps in to say that even the prophet isn't allowed to know the truth as it would impinge on free agency.

The church itself made itself look entirely, unequivocally, and 100% silly.....i.e., deceived. And its apologetic arm, FARMS, made it authentic before Hinckley could even buy up the forgeries to hide them!

[Philo Sofee]

Netflix dropped this bombshell a couple of days ago, and I'm kind of surprised it hasn't been mentioned here or "elsewhere" by now.

Man, that brought back memories. What a scumbag Hoffman deceived prophet Kimball was.

Bad things happen to good people...and always have Mormonism hides it. What does that say, if anything, about God supposed prophets and seers?

Sure could be a faith shaker when these things happen. At the time, things were really in a turmoil.

I think the production was pretty even handed. Some of these folks sure are looking older. Guess that’s me too.

Regards,
MG

Fixed it for you to properly reflect the larger reality of which still exists today...

[mentalgymnast]

They only skim the Church's response to the Salamander letter. I think there was a very brief scene with Oaks in it, reading some kind of response but I don't recall what it was. They do make the Church look a little silly. GBH bought up documents to suppress them while leaders made a flurry of contradictory statements about them. Turley jumps in to say that even the prophet isn't allowed to know the truth as it would impinge on free agency.

The church itself made itself look entirely, unequivocally, and 100% silly.....i.e., deceived. And its apologetic arm, FARMS, made it authentic before Hinckley could even buy up the forgeries to hide them!

I’d have to agree that Dallin Oaks and Dean Jesse probably learned a few lessons through this experience. I think that General Authorities and Academics are not immune to the errors in judgement, peer pressure, and emotional engagement/investment that the rest of us deal with as a matter of being human.

One thing I think we can agree on...Hoffman was evil personified, and he fooled a lot of people. Even those closest to him.

I’m happy Netflix put this up. There are a lot of folks that probably didn’t even know this happened. Blast from the past. Literally.

Regards,
MG

[mentalgymnast]

Man, that brought back memories. What a scumbag Hoffman deceived prophet Kimball was.

Bad things happen to good people...and always have Mormonism hides it. What does that say, if anything, about God supposed prophets and seers?

Sure could be a faith shaker when these things happen. At the time, things were really in a turmoil.

I think the production was pretty even handed. Some of these folks sure are looking older. Guess that’s me too.

Regards,
MG

Fixed it for you to properly reflect the larger reality of which still exists today...

You’re putting words into my mouth that I didn’t say. I’ll go with the original words that are actually mine.

Thanks,
MG

[Philo Sofee]

The church itself made itself look entirely, unequivocally, and 100% silly.....i.e., deceived. And its apologetic arm, FARMS, made it authentic before Hinckley could even buy up the forgeries to hide them!

I’d have to agree that Dallin Oaks and Dean Jesse probably learned a few lessons through this experience. I think that General Authorities and Academics are not immune to the errors in judgement, peer pressure, and emotional engagement/investment that the rest of us deal with as a matter of being human.

One thing I think we can agree on...Hoffman was evil personified, and he fooled a lot of people. Even those closest to him.

I’m happy Netflix put this up. There are a lot of folks that probably didn’t even know this happened. Blast from the past. Literally.

Regards,
MG

Agreed for the most part. I learned from it all that there is no difference whatever in having a prophet or seer on the planet. It literally never makes a difference. They are just men trying their best like all of us. There is nothing particularly strategic or enlightening in having them imagining they have secret insider knowledge directly from God when they refuse to use it, and if they do, it never turns out accurate. Unless they work in vague generalities which statistically anyone can figure out for themselves.

[Philo Sofee]

Fixed it for you to properly reflect the larger reality of which still exists today...

You’re putting words into my mouth that I didn’t say. I’ll go with the original words that are actually mine.

Thanks,
MG

I'm putting in the obvious implications of the situation which you refuse to face, but the rest of us grasp... I'll certainly go with that, as it is a larger and more whole, correct truth...

[Shulem]

I'm putting in the obvious implications of the situation which you refuse to face, but the rest of us grasp... I'll certainly go with that, as it is a larger and more whole, correct truth...

There is nothing anyone could ever say or demonstrate that would convince me that Kimball was an inspired prophet. I'd have to lie to myself and murder the truth in my own heart and mind which tells me: Kimball was just another prick who took the helm of the Mormon cult.

Kimball was a homophobic bastard. If he could have had his way he would outlawed homosexual practices and jailed those found guilty of offending his personal sensibilities. The man was a tyrant having a black heart.

I wonder if President Kimball ever performed oral sex -- or is he from The Not Even Once Club?

[Shulem]

I'm putting in the obvious implications of the situation which you refuse to face, but the rest of us grasp... I'll certainly go with that, as it is a larger and more whole, correct truth...

Kimball was deceived. He would be the first to admit it. He was probably pretty pissed off about it. I find it difficult to believe that Mormons in general would except the idea that the entire First Presidency flanked by apostles could be deceived by a conman who was selling them forgeries and would just as well kill any of them with a pipe bomb should they get in his way. Have you ever thought of that? Had Hoffman wanted to, he could have done more than just deceive the First Presidency, he could have murdered them and caused more damage then any of us can possibly imagine.

[mentalgymnast]

I’d have to agree that Dallin Oaks and Dean Jesse probably learned a few lessons through this experience. I think that General Authorities and Academics are not immune to the errors in judgement, peer pressure, and emotional engagement/investment that the rest of us deal with as a matter of being human.

One thing I think we can agree on...Hoffman was evil personified, and he fooled a lot of people. Even those closest to him.

I’m happy Netflix put this up. There are a lot of folks that probably didn’t even know this happened. Blast from the past. Literally.

Regards,
MG

Agreed for the most part. I learned from it all that there is no difference whatever in having a prophet or seer on the planet. It literally never makes a difference. They are just men trying their best like all of us. There is nothing particularly strategic or enlightening in having them imagining they have secret insider knowledge directly from God when they refuse to use it, and if they do, it never turns out accurate. Unless they work in vague generalities which statistically anyone can figure out for themselves.

It is interesting to say the least, that people take what they will from what they observe in this world. The longer I live the more I have come to realize that what I take away from my experience/learning doesn’t always dovetail with what others take away from their experience/learning in the world. Take you, for example, essentially we grew up in the generation of church experience. Seminary, Institute, Sunstone, Dialogue, etc., and yet our ‘takeaway’ has been different over time. Funny thing is, I think I can understand essentially how you arrived where you’re at, but I’m not sure that you can really understand me. At least that’s the impression I get when getting lambasted by you and others for taking the position of a believer.

But that’s OK. It takes all types to make the world go round. Diversity of thought and opinion makes things colorful. Never a dull moment.

I do have to say, that at the time the Mark Hoffman saga was happening it really threw me for a loop as I’m sure it did others who took the time to take a deep dive into what went on.

Regards,
MG

[dastardly stem]

Lame comment but the spellings kind of odd and it caught my eye. Hofmann not Hoffman.