"Today you will be with me in Paradise"

[_twinkie]

You know, I am sure that 70 years after Jesus' death, people would still be talking about what he said. 70 years is not really a long time. The fact that the words were written 70 years after doesn't mean he never said them. Abraham Lincoln died over twice that many years ago and we still know that he said those famous words, "fourscore and 7 years ago...."

[_guy sajer]

From what I was told, by none other than DCP himself, the Savior did not say these words. We have no words from the Savior. These words were put in the Savior's mouth years later by men who either weren't there or who wanted him to say certain things. We don't know what the Savior said on the cross, or if he said anything at all.

Care to provide a context for Dr. Peterson's assertion? If you can remember when and where this was told directly to you by Dr. Peterson I'll ask him about it tomorrow.

Still waiting harmony.

*yawn* Don't you ever sleep?

It was on ZLMB several years ago. I was using Christ's words to illustrate a point; he informed me that no one knows what Christ said on the cross, or if he said anything, that the words that are attributed to him were written 70 years after his death. And he was right. I chalked it up to one of those things I learned from the Great One.

Yeah, he and his wife have no idea what you're talking about. He mentioned that a similar situation occured in Cairo long ago when a woman claimed he had taught her that the Bible is only a collection of ancient myths. Dr. Peterson's wife said those are odd situations because Dr. Peterson emphasizes so much the historicity of the biblical account. I can attest to that, because in class he often points out the little quirks in the Bible that testify of its historicity, like having the first witness of the resurrection be a woman, and so forth. If you could produce the alleged post I would be more open to accept this as anything but a falsification, but it seems you're either making stuff up, or you totally misunderstood a comment of his.

Or, alterntively it might mean that the person who wrote the resurrection story understood the cultural context of the times.

Mark Twain's novels accurately reflected the cultural mileau of his time, but this hardly means that Huck Finn is accurate history.

I hardly find this a compelling argument.

Moreover, is it possible that Harmony remembers correctly and DCP does not? Your response assumes that DCP has, a priori, a more reliable memory than Harmony. From where I sit, I have no basis to believe one is inherently more reliable than the other.

[_maklelan]

Or, alterntively it might mean that the person who wrote the resurrection story understood the cultural context of the times.

Well, that's exactly the point. During that time period women were not considered valid witnesses of anything, so a person during that time period would never have chosen a woman as an eyewitness if they were making it up. You're making assumptions again that are far outside the scope of your knowledge.

Mark Twain's novels accurately reflected the cultural mileau of his time, but this hardly means that Huck Finn is accurate history.

I hardly find this a compelling argument.

As unfamiliar as you are with biblical scholarship, this doesn't surprise me.

Moreover, is it possible that Harmony remembers correctly and DCP does not? Your response assumes that DCP has, a priori, a more reliable memory than Harmony. From where I sit, I have no basis to believe one is inherently more reliable than the other.

One is an accomplished scholar who has taught around the world, the other is an angry chick who has blatantly lied to my face, and continually lies to others about her testimony.

[_harmony]

One is an accomplished scholar who has taught around the world, the other is an angry chick who has blatantly lied to my face, and continually lies to others about her testimony.

Well, you think he's an accomplished scholar. Several of the rest of us would likely not agree with you.

And his wife? Why would his wife know anything about it at all? As far as I know, I've never had a conversation with the woman (although it would no doubt be interesting, especially if she didn't know who I am).

I'm a chick? A chick???? I don't know whether to be flattered or pissed off. I'm about 40 years beyond being a chick, Maklelan. I've earned the right to be respected for what I am, an adult woman. My hair is white, my face carries the years, my hands have age spots. If you can't be respectful for someone old enough to be your mother, then you do your family and your upbringing a disservice. Age alone demands a level of respect you seem to have forgotten. Or didn't your momma teach you any manners?

As for me being a liar, you have no way of knowing what's in my heart, nor do you know my testimony nor my circumstances. All you show with your words is your immaturity and your foolish venom. If this is an example of what you know, you don't know diddly squat. Every time you type another sentence, you dig your hole deeper.

He said what he said. If he denies it, that's his problem, not mine. It was one of the few positive things I ever learned from him, which is no doubt why he denies it now. The rest of what he's taught me includes a long list, all of which reflect negatively on the church and on himself.

[_maklelan]

One is an accomplished scholar who has taught around the world, the other is an angry chick who has blatantly lied to my face, and continually lies to others about her testimony.

Well, you think he's an accomplished scholar. Several of the rest of us would likely not agree with you.

And it's not hard to see why. Unbiased people think he's an accomplished scholar as well.

And his wife? Why would his wife know anything about it at all? As far as I know, I've never had a conversation with the woman (although it would no doubt be interesting, especially if she didn't know who I am).

She's by his side in everything, and reads most of what he writes, as far as I can tell. She's in the class with me that he teaches.

I'm a chick? A chick???? I don't know whether to be flattered or pissed off. I'm about 40 years beyond being a chick, Maklelan. I've earned the right to be respected for what I am, an adult woman. My hair is white, my face carries the years, my hands have age spots. If you can't be respectful for someone old enough to be your mother, then you do your family and your upbringing a disservice. Age alone demands a level of respect you seem to have forgotten. Or didn't your momma teach you any manners?

Your demeanor hasn't earned you any respect beyond that. I have no idea how old you are, but your attitude speaks volumes.

As for me being a liar, you have no way of knowing what's in my heart, nor do you know my testimony nor my circumstances. All you show with your words is your immaturity and your foolish venom. If this is an example of what you know, you don't know diddly squat. Every time you type another sentence, you dig your hole deeper.

He said what he said. If he denies it, that's his problem, not mine. It was one of the few positive things I ever learned from him, which is no doubt why he denies it now. The rest of what he's taught me includes a long list, all of which reflect negatively on the church and on himself.

You're more than welcome to go find the post, but I believe he and his wife over you in this instance.

[_Jersey Girl]

A......chick? Define chick, maklelan.

Jersey Girl

[_maklelan]

A......chick? Define chick, maklelan.

Jersey Girl

I have grown up around grown women who call themselves chicks, so I don't think of it as a derogatory or diminutive title, but if others feel offended by the word then I apologize. I won't use it again.

[_harmony]

One is an accomplished scholar who has taught around the world, the other is an angry chick who has blatantly lied to my face, and continually lies to others about her testimony.

Well, you think he's an accomplished scholar. Several of the rest of us would likely not agree with you.

And it's not hard to see why. Unbiased people think he's an accomplished scholar as well.

Uh huh. And unbiased people think I'm a wise woman, but we both know modesty prevents me from making such a claim.

And his wife? Why would his wife know anything about it at all? As far as I know, I've never had a conversation with the woman (although it would no doubt be interesting, especially if she didn't know who I am).

She's by his side in everything, and reads most of what he writes, as far as I can tell. She's in the class with me that he teaches.

Doesn't trust him, huh? Or maybe she condones and encourages his arrogant self-righteous prick attitude. Some women will do anything to gain approval.

I'm a chick? A chick???? I don't know whether to be flattered or pissed off. I'm about 40 years beyond being a chick, Maklelan. I've earned the right to be respected for what I am, an adult woman. My hair is white, my face carries the years, my hands have age spots. If you can't be respectful for someone old enough to be your mother, then you do your family and your upbringing a disservice. Age alone demands a level of respect you seem to have forgotten. Or didn't your momma teach you any manners?

Your demeanor hasn't earned you any respect beyond that. I have no idea how old you are, but your attitude speaks volumes.

Honey, if your respect was important to me, I'd have it. That I don't should give you some idea how important it is to me. I see you as a wannabe clone of DCP, and that's neither attractive nor does it automatically demand respect. Your lack of humility, disregard for others, and complete ignorance of what you don't know simply shows your lack of maturity. That you don't know how foolish you are is a clear indicator of your obliviousness. And that you actually asked your professor about someone named harmony is absolutely hilarious. You don't have any better a grasp on reality than he does. Geez, my sides hurt from the laughter the whole idea generates.

And for the record, I'm old enough to be your momma.

As for me being a liar, you have no way of knowing what's in my heart, nor do you know my testimony nor my circumstances. All you show with your words is your immaturity and your foolish venom. If this is an example of what you know, you don't know diddly squat. Every time you type another sentence, you dig your hole deeper.

He said what he said. If he denies it, that's his problem, not mine. It was one of the few positive things I ever learned from him, which is no doubt why he denies it now. The rest of what he's taught me includes a long list, all of which reflect negatively on the church and on himself.

You're more than welcome to go find the post, but I believe he and his wife over you in this instance.

Can't be done. I'm banned from ZLMB. And even if I wasn't, their search feature is a relic from the dark ages, and virtually inoperable. And of course you believe him. I'd be very surprised if you ever questioned anything he ever said. Given enough time, you'll become a PB of DCP, just like urroner. And the rest of us will simply shake our heads at the foolishly misplaced hero worship. Some day, you may also shake your head at what you say now. There is hope, after all.

[_maklelan]

Honey, if your respect was important to me, I'd have it.

Is that a fact?

[_Yoda]

I'm curious, Mak. If DCP denied what he told Harmony, did he have any comment on the subject at all? Does he believe that when Jesus said, "thou shalt be with me in paradise", he was referring simply to the spirit world?