Progressing between kingdoms? A possibility?

[_moksha]

If one could not progress, then your progression would not really be eternal, would it?

[_ozemc]

From the Seven Deadly heresies

Heresy five: There are those who say that there is progression from one kingdom to another in the eternal worlds or that lower kingdoms eventually progress to where higher kingdoms once were.

This belief lulls men into a state of carnal security. It causes them to say,

"God is so merciful; surely he will save us all eventually; if we do not gain the celestial kingdom now, eventually we will; so why worry?"

It lets people live a life of sin here and now with the hope that they will be saved eventually.

The true doctrine is that all men will be resurrected, but they will come forth in the resurrection with different kinds of bodies-some celestial, others terrestrial, others telestial, and some with bodies incapable of standing any degree of glory. The body we receive in the resurrection determines the glory we receive in the kingdoms that are prepared.

True Doctrine? Because someone else said so? God is so much more than what someone wrote in a book, Gaz.

No one really knows what will happen. It's all just speculation.

Of those in the telestial world it is written:

"And they shall be servants of the Most High, but where God and Christ dwell they cannot come, worlds without end" (D&C 76:112).

Of those who had the opportunity to enter into the new and everlasting covenant of marriage in this life and who did not do it the revelation says:.

Therefore, when they are out of the world they neither marry nor are given in marriage; but are appointed angels in heaven; which angels are ministering servants, to minister for those who are worthy of a far more, and an exceeding, and an eternal weight of glory.

For these angels did not abide my law; therefore, they cannot be enlarged, but remain separately and singly, without exaltation, in their saved condition, to all etemity; and from henceforth are not gods, but are angels of God forever and ever. [D&C 132:16-17]

They neither progress from one kingdom to another, nor does a lower kingdom ever get where a higher kingdom once was. Whatever eternal progression there is, it is within a sphere.

In regards to the continueing question as to why God has chosen to personally slay his children, and as to why Satan and 1/3 were cast out:

Satan and those who followed him chose of their own account to rebel against the plan of salvation. The Father stated " this is how exaltation is obtained" and Satan and the third cried foul. They did not agree, and therefore did not participate. And since they did not adhere to the culture, they were given a place of their own, away from the Fatehr and those who think as he does.

The Children who were slain in the flood were those who rebelled against the plan of God and created an enviorment that the gospel could not flourish in in any way. They had had Adam, Seth Enoch and Noah to teach them, as well as the entire population of the City of Enoch who were all perfectly obedient. They had rejected all of these prophets, so therefore a new soil was required.

Gaz

Do you believe that every word in the Bible is true?

[_grampa75]

I originally posted this in the Terestrial forum, but I really want to post it here as well, to gain a perspective from those who may not be comfortable posting in the other level.

I appreciate your thoughts, guys! Thanks!:)

One thing I have always had a problem with in Mormonism is the idea that after you are judged by God, you are relegated to a kingdom, be it Telestial, Terrestrial, or Celestial, and that's it!

This earth life is our time to be "tried and tested", and there is no chance for further progression in the next life.

If you haven't minded all of your p's and q's....dotted all the I's...crossed all the t's....even if you were a faithful LDS servant, more than likely, you're going to the Terrestrial Kingdom because you aren't good enough to be a God in the Celestial Kingdom.


So....my kids get "judged", and they haven't made all of the mistakes I have...they go to the Celestial Kingdom and I'm "cut off" from them. Being sealed to them means nothing because I'm stuck in a lower kingdom. Oh, sure, it's nice and all, but I don't have the freedom to visit my kids. I have to wait for them to see me, when they're not too busy.

That sure sounds like hell to me.

I just don't see how a God who believes in eternal progression, constant learning, and compassion, can't allow for the fact that we might learn things beyond this existance and still be worthy for a greater glory.

Thoughts?

The teaching that our judgment here it is determine which glory of heaven you aspire to for all time and all eternity; gives me a sick feeling in my stomach, and my own feelings tell me that there is something lacking in that teaching that has not, as yet, been brought forth by the further translation of the Book of Mormon. I don't believe, however, that we have to wait to receive the asnwers to make the plan of God cause anyone to want to weep with joy, and gladness of heart.

I have said before that if you were to make an attempt to create your own plan to cause men to desire to be perfect, and you would call upon the wisest, and most loving of individuals to assist you, after, let's say, a thousand years of earnestly trying, and you finally arrive at what you may consider to be the most perfect of all plans, then you would have to realize this one thing before ever knowing God or HIS plan; that HE would have a much better plan. It is just not possible to out think or to out love God. Ask yourself if you couldn't create a better plan, and then ask if you don't think that there would have to be something in God's Eternal Plan that is yet to be made known.

I try and utilize just two scriptures and then ask my own self how that they fit into God's Eternal Plan.

D & C 19: 5 Wherefore, I revoke not the judgments which I shall pass, but woes shall go forth, weeping, wailing and gnashing of teeth, yea, to those who are found on my left hand.

6. Nevertheless, it is NOT written that there shall be no end to this torment, but it is written endless torment.

7. Again, it is written eternal damnation; wherefore it is more express than other scriptures, that it might work upon the hearts of the children of men, altogether for my name's glory.

8. Wherefore, I will explain unto you this mystery, for it is meet unto you to know even as mine apostles.

10. For, behold, the mystery of godliness, how great is it! For, behold, I am endless, and the punishment which is given from my hand is endless punishment, for Endless is my name. Wherefore-----

11. Eternal Punishment is God's punishment.

12. Endless punishment is God's punishment.

From those few verses I take it that any punishment which is given to us by God is ether Eternal or Everlasting punishment, simply because the punishment is named after God, but it does not say that there will be no end to that punishment, and if it does not say that there will be no end to the punishment, it seems to me it would mean that there isn't any punishment that will last for eternity.

Now let us all consider these 3 verses and find a place where they may also fit into God's eternal plan;

Ephesians 4:11 And he gave to some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

12. For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ;

13. Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge oof the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ;

By reading those few verses I first take it that no punishment will last forever, and that in the eternities to come we will all become as perfect as the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

If you can't see how all these teachings fit into the plan of Eternal Progression, then that would most cetainly be a good place to seek Enlightenment

Let me ask a few questions that in my opinion would cause anyone to search deeper into the mysteries of God.

We are supposed to have 3 degrees of glory, 1, the Celestial Kingdom of Heaven. 2. Terrestrian Kingdom of Heaven. 3. The Telestial Kingdom of heaven. and then outer darkness which is not a kingdom of Glory.

In the Telestial Kingdom of Heaven Christ is the King, which actually makes it a kingdom, but we shall all be under the Auspice of the Holy Ghost, and it shall be in the heavens. Isn't this earth right now under the auspice of the Holy Ghost? Isn't Christ the King? Are we or are we not in the heavens making us a heavenly body? Wouldn't this same way of making this earth the Telestial Kingdom of heaven also apply for the Terrestrial and Celestial Kingdoms? It appears to me that this earth is and will be all four of the kingdoms.

[_grampa75]

If one could not progress, then your progression would not really be eternal, would it?

grampa75 The scriptures tell us that Christ progressed until such time when HE had overcome all of his disobedience, and only then was HE given the calling of God for all of us.

Hebrews 5: 8 Though he were a son yet lerned he obedience by the things which he suffered.
9. And having been made "PERFECT" he became the author of eternal salvation unto all those who believe on his name.

St. John 5: 19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do NOTHING of himself, but what he seeth the FATHER do: for what things soever he doeth, these alsos doeth the Son likewise.
20. For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that HIMSELF doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.
21. For as the FATHER RAISETH UP THE DEAD, AND QUICKENETH them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.

Here we have Christ's Father doing the exact same things that Christ did. He not only raised the dead and made them immortal or quickeneth them; it was also taught by Joseph Smith that Christ's Father died on some other earth for the sins of mankind, the same way Christ did.

I wondered; since LDS have been taught that they may one day become a god themselves if it ever entered into the deepest recesses of their viscerals that the office of God they may be called to fill just may require them to suffer, bleed, and die on some distant Calvary yet to be created. Otherwise what is the purpose of ALL OF US ever aspiring to a state of perfection equal to that of Christ if it were not to serve such a purpose. Doesn't this next verse imply that we shall ALL aspire to a degree of perfection, equal to that of Christ??

Ephesians 4: 11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12. For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry,for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13. TILL WE ALL COME in the unity of the faith, and of the knoweldge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, UNTO THE MEASURE OF THE STATURE OF THE FULLNESS OF CHRIST.

If that is what it means, then to me, at least, the term "Eternal Progression" is perfectly spelled out.

grampa75[/quote]

[_moksha]

If one could not progress, then your progression would not really be eternal, would it?

grampa75 The scriptures tell us that Christ progressed until such time when HE had overcome all of his disobedience, and only then was HE given the calling of God for all of us.

To me, Eternal Progression would mean continual growth and development, not growth up to a certain point, then eternal stagnation afterward. We can all agree that the term eternal means forever with no finite limits, can't we?

[_Gazelam]

Eternal progression is through ones children. Once a person is a God they know and understand all things, personal progression is finished, One only progresses from that point on by exalting their offspring.

Instead of thinking of the realms as kingdoms, it helps to instead view them as spheres of influence. Its easier to understand this way because you can then view it as how much can an individual be entrusted with.

Gaz

[_ba81]

The following is a compilation of statements regarding the afterlife which I believe are specific to the topic of kingdom progression. This compilation should be especially useful to the LDS studying the issue. I've arranged the material into three sections as follows: scriptures, statements by authorities in favor of kingdom progression, statement by authorities against kingdom progression, and letters from the first presidency. I hope this is helpful.

Scriptures:

(DC 19: 5-12)
…Wherefore, I revoke not the judgments which I shall pass, but woes shall go forth, weeping, wailing and gnashing of teeth, yea, to those who are found on my left hand. Nevertheless, it is not written that there shall be no end to this torment, but it is written endless torment.

Again, it is written eternal damnation; wherefore it is more express than other scriptures, that it might work upon the hearts of the children of men, altogether for my name’s glory. Wherefore, I will explain unto you this mystery, for it is meet unto you to know even as mine apostles. I speak unto you that are chosen in this thing, even as one, that you may enter into my rest. For, behold, the mystery of godliness, how great is it!

For, behold, I am endless, and the punishment which is given from my hand is endless punishment, for Endless is my name. Wherefore—Eternal punishment is God’s punishment. Endless punishment is God’s punishment…[/quote]

(DC 19: 15-18)
Therefore I command you to repent—repent, lest I smite you by the rod of my mouth, and by my wrath, and by my anger, and your sufferings be sore—how sore you know not, how exquisite you know not, yea, how hard to bear you know not. For behold, I, God, have suffered these things for all, that they might not suffer if they would repent; But if they would not repent they must suffer even as I; Which suffering caused myself, even God, the greatest of all, to tremble because of pain, and to bleed at every pore, and to suffer both body and spirit . . .

(DC 76: 21-23)
And they who are not sanctified through the law which I have given unto you, even the law of Christ, must inherit another kingdom, even that of a terrestrial kingdom, or that of a telestial kingdom. For he who is not able to abide the law of a celestial kingdom cannot abide a celestial glory. And he who cannot abide the law of a terrestrial kingdom cannot abide a terrestrial glory.

(DC 76:70-78)
These are they whose bodies are celestial, whose glory is that of the sun, even the glory of God, the highest of all, whose glory the sun of the firmament is written of as being typical. And again, we saw the terrestrial world, and behold and lo, these are they who are of the terrestrial, whose glory differs from that of the church of the Firstborn who have received the fulness of the Father, even as that of the moon differs from the sun in the firmament. Behold, these are they who died without law; And also they who are the spirits of men kept in prison, whom the Son visited, and preached the gospel unto them, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh; Who received not the testimony of Jesus in the flesh, but afterwards received it. These are they who are honorable men of the earth, who were blinded by the craftiness of men. These are they who receive of his glory, but not of his fulness. These are they who receive of the presence of the Son, but not of the fulness of the Father. Wherefore, they are bodies terrestrial, and not bodies celestial, and differ in glory as the moon differs from the sun.

(DC 88: 22-24, 35)
For he who is not able to abide the law of a celestial kingdom cannot abide a celestial glory. And he who cannot abide the law of a terrestrial kingdom cannot abide a terrestrial glory. And he who cannot abide the law of a telestial kingdom cannot abide a telestial glory; therefore he is not meet for a kingdom of glory. Therefore he must abide a kingdom which is not a kingdom of glory...That which breaketh a law, and abideth not by law, but seeketh to become a law unto itself, and willeth to abide in sin, and altogether abideth in sin, cannot be sanctified by law, neither by mercy, justice, nor judgment. Therefore, they must remain filthy still.

(DC 131: 1-4)
In the celestial glory there are three heavens or degrees; And in order to obtain the highest, a man must enter into this order of the priesthood [meaning the new and everlasting covenant of marriage]; And if he does not, he cannot obtain it. He may enter into the other, but that is the end of his kingdom; he cannot have an increase.

(DC 132: 16-17)
Of those who had the opportunity to enter into the new and everlasting covenant of marriage in this life and who did not do it, the revelation says: Therefore, when they are out of the world they neither marry nor are given in marriage; but are appointed angels in heaven; which angels are ministering servants, to minister for those who are worthy of a far more, and an exceeding, and an eternal weight of glory. For these angels did not abide my law; therefore, they cannot be enlarged, but remain separately and singly, without exaltation, in their saved condition, to all eternity; and from henceforth are not gods, but are angels of God forever and ever.


For Kingdom Progression

(Doctrines of Salvation 2:91)
But children born under the convenant, who drift away, are still the children of their parents; and the parents have a claim upon them; and if the children have not sinned away all of their rights, the parents may be able to bring them through repentance, into the celestial kingdom, but not to receive exaltation. Of course if the children sin too greviously, they will have to enter the telestial kingdom, or they may even become sons of perdition.

(John Taylor)
... there may be other ways of attaining to the celestial Kingdom...

(Journal of Wilford Woodruff @ August 5, 1855)
I attended the Prayer Circle in the evening. . . . In conversing upon various principles President Young said none would inherit this Earth when it became celestial & translated into the presence of God but those who would be crowned as Gods & able to endure the fullness of the presence of God, except they would be permitted to take with them some servants for whom they would be held responsible. All others would have to inherit another kingdom, even that kingdom agreeing with the law which they had kept. He said they would eventually have the privilege of proving themselves worthy & advancing to a celestial kingdom, but it would be a slow progress.

(B.H. Robers @ June 21, 1896 discourse, in Collected Discourses 1886-1898, Volume 5)
Salvation, in some order of its many degrees, shall meet the soul of every man and every woman, bringing them unto that exaltation that their souls are capable of receiving, and saving them unto the uttermost—not all alike, any more than men are all alike here, no more than conditions are all alike here; but as the stars differ from each other in brightness or glory, so shall the rewards of men differ in the world which is to come, even "according to their works." But no man shall be left out of the mercy and the grace of God, except only those who do violence unto it, after having once received it; for the crime of high treason against God, and a repudiation of the plan of life and salvation after having received it, merits such punishment and such destruction as is known only to God. But the remainder of the children of God shall find rest in some one of the many divisions of glory that are to be found in the kingdom of God, and shall find peace and glory equal to the development that they have made or are capable of making with the grand opportunities that will be presented to them, until progress shall be made from glory to glory, until every soul shall contain all that it is possible for it to receive, even endless progression. For God has decreed that those of the celestial glory, that is after the resurrection, shall minister to those of the terrestrial glory, and those of the terrestrial glory shall minister to them of the telestial glory; and I can conceive no reason why there should be this continual ministration of the higher to the lower glory but for the purpose of exalting all to a higher plane of glory, in the direction of the eternal progression which God has opened to the children of men. This explanation Mormonism makes possible to these facts that we see before us, and which are otherwise inexplicable.

(B.H. Roberts @ New Witnesses for God, pp. 391-392)
The question of advancement within the great divisions of glory celestial, terrestrial, and telestial; as also the question of advancement from one sphere of glory to another remains to be considered. In the revelation from which we have summarized what has been written here, in respect to the different degrees of glory, it is said that those of the terrestrial glory will be ministered unto by those of the celestial; and those of the telestial will be ministered unto by those of the terrestrial—that is, those of the higher glory minister to those of a lesser glory. I can conceive of no reason for all this administration of the higher to the lower, unless it be for the purpose of advancing our Father's children along the lines of eternal progression. Whether or not in the great future, full of so many possibilities now hidden from us, they of the lesser glories after education and advancement within those spheres may at last emerge from them and make their way to the higher degrees of glory until at last they attain to the highest, is not revealed in the revelations of God, and any statement made on the subject must partake more or less of the nature of conjecture. But if it be granted that such a thing is possible, they who at the first entered into the celestial glory—having before them the privilege also of eternal progress—have been moving onward, so that the relative distance between them and those who have fought their way up from the lesser glories may be as great when the latter have come into the degrees of celestial glory in which the righteous at first stood, as it was at the commencement. Thus: Those whose faith and works are such only as to enable them to inherit a telestial glory, may arrive at last where those whose works in this life were such as to enable them to entrance into the celestial kingdom—they may arrive where these were, but never where they are.

("Words of the Prophet" @ p. 24 ("Scriptural Items"); Scribe: Franklin D. Richards, August 1, 1843; CHO Ms/d/4409/Misc Minutes Collection)
Hiram [Smith] said Aug 1st [18]43 Those of the Terrestrial Glory either advance to the Celestial or recede to the Telestial [or] else the moon could not be a type [viz. a symbol of that kingdom]. [for] it [the moon] "waxes & wanes". Also that br George will be quickened by celestial glory having been ministered to by one of that Kingdom.

(J.D. 25:236; Franklin D. Richards; Discourse delivered in the Tabernacle @ Logan, Cache County; Saturday afternoon; May 17, 1884)
. . .but those in the terrestrial kingdom are those who will come forth at the time when Enoch comes back, when the Savior comes again to dwell upon the earth. . . .They will go forward, like unto the new moon, increasing in knowledge and brightness and glory, until they come to a fullness of celestial glory. During the Millennium multitudes of people who have not heard the gospel will hear and receive it and go forward into this glory, while those who will not go forward to a fullness will go back to that lesser glory which is likened unto the stars of heaven. . .

(The Articles of Faith @ by James E. Talmage; 1st Edition, pp. 420-421, 1899)
It is reasonable to believe, in the absence of direct revelation by which alone absolute knowledge of the matter could be acquired, that, in accordance with God's plan of eternal progression, advancement from grade to grade within any kingdom, and from kingdom to kingdom, will be provided for. But if the recipients of a lower glory be enabled to advance, surely the intelligences of higher rank will not be stopped in their progress; and thus we may conclude, that degrees and grades will ever characterize the kingdoms of our God. Eternity is progressive; perfection is relative; the essential feature of God's living purpose is its associated power of eternal increase.

(James E. Talmage @ The Articles of Faith 12th ed. (Salt Lake City, 1917), pp. 420-421 (Note: Elder Talmage adjusts his views on the possibility of progression between kingdoms. Compare the following with the quotation above.))
It is reasonable to believe, in the absence of direct revelation by which alone absolute knowledge of the matter could be acquired, that, in accordance with God's plan of eternal progression, advancement within each of the three specified kingdoms will be provided for; though as to possible progress from one kingdom to another the scriptures make no positive affirmation. Eternal advancement along different lines is conceivable. We may conclude that degrees and grades will ever characterize the kingdoms of God. Eternity is progressive; perfection is relative; the essential features of God's living purpose is its associated power of eternal increase.

(J. Reuben Clark @ Church News, week ending 23 April 1960, p. 3)
I am not a strict constructionalist, believing that we seal our eternal progress by what we do here. It is my belief that God will save all of His children that he can; and while, if we live unrighteously here, we shall not go to the other side in the same status, so to speak, as those who lived righteously; nevertheless, the unrighteous will have their chance, and in the eons of the eternities that are to follow, they, too, may climb to the destinies to which they who are righteous and serve God, have climbed to those eternities that are to come


Against Kingdom Progression

(The Teachings of Spencer with. Kimball @ page 50)
No progression between kingdoms. After a person has been assigned to his place in the kingdom, either in the telestial, the terrestrial, or the celestial, or to his exaltation, he will never advance from his assigned glory to another glory. That is eternal! That is why we must make our decisions early in life and why it is imperative that such decisions be right.

(Melvin J. Ballard @ Three Degrees of Glory, a discourse delivered 22 September 1922 (Independence, n.d.), pp. 26-27. )
Now I wish to answer one or two queries that undoubtedly have arisen in your minds, and in doing so I wish to read some more scripture. The question is often asked, 'Is it possible for one who attaints Telestial Glory in time in the eternal world to live so well that he may graduate from the Telestial and pass into the Terrestrial, and then after a season that he may progress from that and be ultimately worthy of Celestial Glory.' That is the query that is asked. I have just read the answer, so far a as the Telestial group is concerned. 'Where God and Christ dwell they cannot come, worlds without end.' I take it upon the same basis, the same argument likewise applies to the Terrestrial World. Those whose lives have entitled them to terrestrial glory can never gain celestial glory. One who gains possession of the lowest degree of the telestial glory may ultimately arise to the highest degree of that glory, but no provision has been made for promotion from one glory to another.

(Joseph Fielding Smith @ Doctrines of Salvation (Salt Lake City, 1955), 2:28-29)
It has been asked if it is possible for one who inherits the telestial glory to advance in time to the celestial glory? The answer to this question is, No! The scriptures are clear on this point. Speaking of those who go to the telestial kingdom, the revelation says, 'And they shall be servants of the Most High; but where God and Christ dwell they cannot come, worlds without end.' (D&C 76:112.) Notwithstanding this statement, those who do not comprehend the word of the Lord argue that while this is true, that they cannot go where God is 'worlds without end,' yet in time they will get to where God was, but he will have gone on to other heights. This is false reasoning, illogical, and creates mischief in making people think they may procrastinate their repentance, but in course of time they will reach exaltation in celestial glory.

(Letter from Orson F. Whitney to R. Bruce Major @ December 13, 1923. (Copy in compiler's files))
The first good opportunity to answer your letter of the 6th instant now presents itself. Read Doctrine and Covenants, Section 76, l09th to 112th paragraphs, and you will have about all I know upon the subject you mention. The rest is mere conjecture, and may be right or wrong. The passages quoted apply to the Telestial Kingdom, and the 112th paragraph reads as follows: 'And they shall be servants of the Most High; but where God and Christ dwell they cannot come, worlds without end.' Whether the same or similar restrictions obtain in the Terrestrial Kingdom, is not stated. But I infer that they do, since the Son, and not the Father, ministers in person to them, just as the Holy Spirit, and not the Son, ministers to the Telestial. See paragraph 77; same Section: 'These are they who receive of the presence of the Son, but not the fulness of the Father.' Concerning the Telestial inhabitants, it is said:'These are they who receive not of his fulness in the eternal world, but of the Holy Spirit through the ministration of the Terrestrial', and 'the Terrestrial through the ministration of the Celestial.' (paragraphs 86 and 87.) What bounds, if any, are put upon the Celestial inhabitants, is not revealed; but we are told, in Section 130, that 'a white stone is given to each of those who come into the Celestial Kingdom, whereon is a new name written, which no man knoweth save he that receiveth it.' And this follows a statement in paragraph 10, same Section, to the effect that this white stone, which is also mentioned in John's Revelation (2:17) will become a Urim and Thummin to each individual who receives one, whereby things pertaining to a higher order of kingdoms will be made known.
Query: Would this white (seer) stone be needed, if they could ascend in person to those higher kingdoms? It is often argued that eternal rogression ---which is doubtless the privilege of all in the hereafter as well as here ---- will eventually enable the inhabitants of the lesser glories to advance beyond them [the lesser glories] and become residents and possessors of the highest degree of glory. This may or may not be the case. It seems to me that the inhabitants of any kingdom of glory might progress eternally in their own sphere, without transcending it. All would depend, I think, upon whether they are or can become possessed of the necessary power to thus advance. The Telestial inhabitants, who are they that 'are cast down to hell,' but afterwards [are] redeemed therefrom, may have lost something in the process that has cleansed them of their sins and made them worthy to rise even to the least degree of glory. Moreover, these are they who receive not the gospel of Christ, 'neither the testimony of Jesus, neither the prophets, neither the everlasting covenant.' Consequently they are not in the Church --- the Church of the First Born, which comprises those in the Celestial Kingdom, (Section 76, paragraphs 82, 84,85 and 101) where God and Christ dwell. It does not say that they cannot pass into the Terrestrial Kingdom, but it does declare most positively that 'where God and Christ dwell they cannot come worlds without end'.

(President Joseph F. Smith @ Improvement Era 14 [November 1910)
:87][O]nce a person enters these glories there will be eternal progress in the line of each of these particular glories, but . . . the privilege of passing from one to another (though this may be possible for especially gifted and faithful characters) is not provided for.

(Joseph Fielding McConkie)
If the resurrection is the inseparable union of body and spirit, advancing from degree to degree would be impossible. It would defy the meaning of words to suppose that an inseparable union of a telestial spirit and a telestial body could be changed for something better or worse. To argue such a possibility would be to argue at the same time that exalted beings were subject to apostasy and that our probationary estate was never ending.

The revelations describe resurrection as the union of body and spirit "never to be divided" (Alma 11:45; D&C 138:17). Furthermore, they tell us that "where God and Christ dwell" those who are telestial "cannot come, worlds without end" (D&C 76:112). Those who do not obtain an exaltation in the celestial kingdom will not be gods but "angels of God forever and ever" (D&C 132:17). "The righteous shall be gathered on my right hand unto eternal life," the Lord said, "and the wicked on my left hand will I be ashamed to own before the Father; wherefore I will say unto them -- Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels. And now, behold, I say unto you, never at any time have I declared from mine own mouth that they should return, for where I am they cannot come, for they have no power" (D&C 29:27-29).

(Bruce R. McConkie)
There are those who say that there is progression from one kingdom to another in the eternal worlds or that lower kingdoms eventually progress to where higher kingdoms once were. This belief lulls men into a state of carnal security. It causes them to say, "God is so merciful; surely he will save us all eventually; if we do not gain the celestial kingdom now, eventually we will; so why worry?" It lets people live a life of sin here and now with the hope that they will be saved eventually. The true doctrine is that all men will be resurrected, but they will come forth in the resurrection with different kinds of bodies--some celestial, others terrestrial, others telestial, and some with bodies incapable of standing any degree of glory. The body we receive in the resurrection determines the glory we receive in the kingdoms that are prepared. Of those in the telestial world it is written: "And they shall be servants of the Most High; but where God and Christ dwell they cannot come, worlds without end" (D&C 76:112). Of those who had the opportunity to enter into the new and everlasting covenant of marriage in this life and who did not do it, the revelation says: Therefore, when they are out of the world they neither marry nor are given in marriage; but are appointed angels in heaven; which angels are ministering servants, to minister for those who are worthy of a far more, and an exceeding, and an eternal weight of glory. For these angels did not abide my law; therefore, they cannot be enlarged, but remain separately and singly, without exaltation, in their saved condition, to all eternity; and from henceforth are not gods, but are angels of God forever and ever. [D&C 132:16¬17] They neither progress from one kingdom to another, nor does a lower kingdom ever get where a higher kingdom once was. Whatever eternal progression there is, it is within a sphere.

(Elder Maxwell (then "commissioner" Maxwell) @ letter to Reed Durham, 17 August 1970)
...the earlier communications of the Presidency indicate that some of the brethren have held post-resurrection progress a possibility, while others have taken an opposite view, and that the newly-cited reference (Doctrine and Covenants 76:112) simply indicates what must be one boundary line, namely, that those who inherit the telestial glory cannot come "worlds without end" where God and Christ dwell. In other words, we know only so much about this matter beyond which anything is speculative, but that verse sounds pretty controling to me with regard to telestial beings.


Letters from the Office of the First Presidency

(Letter from Joseph L. Anderson @ written on behalf of the First Presidency to Brother ___________, March 5, 1952. This brother wrote, in part: "Please inform me to the teaching of the Church regarding the possibility of a person progressing from one kingdom to another after the resurrection." (Copy in compiler's files.))
The Brethren direct me to say that the Church has never announced a definite doctrine upon this point. Some of the Brethren have held that it was possible in the course of progression to advance from one glory to another, invoking the principle of eternal progression; others of the Brethren have taken the opposite view. But as stated, the Church has never announced a definite doctrine on this point.

(Letter from Joseph L. Anderson @ written on behalf of the First Presidency, to Joe J. Christiansen, Dec. 17, 1965. (Transcript in compiler's files.) )
Reference is made to your letter of the December 7th in which you inquire what the teaching of the Church is relative to the possibility of progression from one particular glory to another after the resurrection.

The Brethren direct me to say that the Church has never announced a definite doctrine upon this point, though some have held the view that it was possible in the course of progression to advance from one glory to another, invoking the principle of eternal progression; others have taken the opposite view. As indicated, however, the Church has never announced a definite doctrine on this point.

[_JAK]

The following is a compilation of statements regarding the afterlife which I believe are specific to the topic of kingdom progression. This compilation should be especially useful to the LDS studying the issue. I've arranged the material into three sections as follows: scriptures, statements by authorities in favor of kingdom progression, statement by authorities against kingdom progression, and letters from the first presidency. I hope this is helpful.

It certainly would be of no use to anyone with a brain to think and separate discovery from doctrine.

Dogma and doctrine from biased, partisan sources are generally not “helpful” in any way.

The evolution of religious scripts over human history since the earliest inventions of mythology is “helpful” only in that it may educate intellectually honest people regard that evolution of religious dogmas over hundreds of centuries.

JAK

[_ba81]

Right. I only meant that it should be helpful to Mormons who also do not have brains. I guess I should have been more clear.

[_Yoda]

Wow, ba81! Thank you so much for providing that information. There are a lot of things to think about.