Celestial room

[_Paul Osborne]

barrelomonkeys,

Those were very nice pictures and I do appreciate the work you took to provide the links. Thanks. And, yes, it does appear that hotel lobbies can be quite beautiful and ornate.

All Mercury had to do was produce a single picture and he would have made his point. It’s the idea of someone downplaying the beauty of a Mormon celestial room just by saying there are other rooms like it in hotels. That surely does nothing to diminish the wonderful atmosphere found in the Mormon temple – as if to say, “Oh the Mormon temple isn’t so special because there are hotel lobbies just as nice or better, therefore the Mormon temple isn’t anything to rave about.”

Paul O

[_Blixa]

Paul, I've never been inside a temple, so I can't speak to the experience of being in those rooms in context. However, I did write a post about a kind of "celestial room" on my board blog, Youthful Harlot's Curse. Its about a secular space and a Quaker meeting house: the polar opposite of the kind of interior decoration in temple rooms and hotel lobbies. Maybe you'd like to read it.

[_moksha]

I think the Celestial Room is a very spiritual place.

I also think that pristine vistas fround out in the wilderness are also very spiritual places, especially at times that I have had these wilderness sites to myself.

Aren't spiritual places great?

[_Valorius]

Paul Osborne Mon Jun 25, 2007
You would complain no matter what the temple was made of. If the temples were shacks you would complain about how the Mormons need to built nicer buildings patterned after the requirement given in scripture. Either way, you would attack the Church in a vain effort to put down holy things.

Paul O

And either way, wouldn’t a Mormon defend the style as revealed and inspired and God’s will?

Inconceivable Mon Jun 25, 2007
Some temples like the one in Showlow, AZ downplay all the glit. It impressed me at the time that the people rather desired a house that blended into their community rather than set itself above it. When it opened, Mesa lost a great percentage of their patrons from that community located 3 hours away.

Paul Osborne
Did you hear the part about “allergies”? Hello! And, maybe just maybe the Church would rather spend money in different ways then living flowers.

A thought on artificial flowers:

Unless there is a directive from Church Headquarters stating the reason for artificial flowers is in consideration of those with allergies to flowers, there is no reason to believe allergies are the reason for artificial flowers. If the Church chose its décor on the basis of allergies, would they be using the fabrics they use, or the paints, or the chemical cleaners? Are there statistics to show the number of people adversely affected by being around Celestial Room flowers for however many seconds they are there? How do those numbers compare to those with allergies to various fabrics and chemicals used in the temples?

It is not reasonable to believe that artificial flowers are chosen over real flowers because of possible allergy problems, unless other allergies receive the same attention. It is reasonable to believe that artificial flowers are chosen because they do not need to be watered, clipped, and replaced. The flowers are mundane furnishings, the same as the tables and chairs.


A thought on temple magnificences:

Somewhere in 1987-1990, a temple was built that was much more humble (financially and spatially) than previously built temples. I asked a friend, Rex, what was the reason for building a new temple that lacked the grandeur and visibility of the other temples. I thought Temples were supposed to be more elegant and magnificent. I wondered aloud to him if this indicated something troubling with the financial status of the Church. Waxing indignant, he announced that the Church had no financial difficulties, harumph, and that he in any case greatly approved of and was thankful for the new style, because it was indeed humble, and allowed more funds to go to programs addressing poverty, hunger, and homelessness. The more humble building would show people that the Church isn't self-focused but focused on its mission to the world.

Was it the very next temple that was built?, it was an extravagant thing. So I asked him if he opposed the more grandiose style. He said he approved because it was what was worthy of a building designed for God’s work, or some such words.

So there are expensively wrought temples and there are office-building-like edifices. I suspect the reason for the differences in styles has a lot to do with the financial situation of the church, especially in terms of how much revenue is coming in from the particular area in which a temple is to be built, and also with the culture and architectural aesthetics of the area in which a temple is to be built.

If that is the case, Mormons should say that. It is frustrating to listen to people, as I have so many times, "make up reasons" for individual cases. More good feelings would ensue were we to make the effort to learn the over-all plan, the immediate and long-term goals, and describe changes in those terms. I know its natural to guess and give an answer as quickly as the question is asked. Good answers usually take a little time to discover.

moksha
I think the Celestial Room is a very spiritual place.

I also think that pristine vistas fround out in the wilderness are also very spiritual places, especially at times that I have had these wilderness sites to myself.

Aren't spiritual places great?

Spiritual places are great, and spiritual. A new giant temple has been built in Korea by the former Unification Church. It’s a combination palace, temple, museum, receiving hall. Every person has a special place he thinks of as a peaceful haven or a taste of celestial happiness. Such places and thoughts of them inspire and energize us for our role in the physical world of change and struggle.

Such places of meditation, reflection, and redetermination are not only good, but necessary. Thank God for them, even the Mormon Temples.

[_Polygamy Porter]

I think the Celestial Room is a very spiritual place.

I also think that pristine vistas fround out in the wilderness are also very spiritual places, especially at times that I have had these wilderness sites to myself.

Aren't spiritual places great?

My spiritual place:

At one of my favorite Tahoe resorts, snowboard off trail deep into the forest. Stop when I can no longer hear anyone.

Outstretch my arms and fall straight back onto my back into the pillow softness of a 2-3 foot blanket of fresh Sierra snow.

Gaze up between the snow covered pine and redwood spires and listen to the last few snow flakes fall through the air...

[_harmony]

It is not reasonable to believe that artificial flowers are chosen over real flowers because of possible allergy problems, unless other allergies receive the same attention. It is reasonable to believe that artificial flowers are chosen because they do not need to be watered, clipped, and replaced. The flowers are mundane furnishings, the same as the tables and chairs.

The cynic in me tells me that the church chooses fake flowers because they're cheaper, and for no other reason.

I don't buy the allergy reason because of an experience I've witnessed in my ward. A member in good standing in my ward cannot attend church at any time because she is violently allergic to the glue in the carpeting. Did they change the glue, when they changed the carpets? Not a chance. Why? Because to get a glue that she would not be allergic to would be more expensive, and the church's standards cannot be ignored. So... she never goes to church, and she knows exactly how much she is worth (the worth of a soul is great!) to SL Central.

Cheap. Fake. Not my idea of heaven. And if that's what it's like, I'm not going to miss it.

[_Inconceivable]

... Waxing indignant, he announced that the Church had no financial difficulties, harumph, and that he in any case greatly approved of and was thankful for the new style, because it was indeed humble, and allowed more funds to go to programs addressing poverty, hunger, and homelessness. The more humble building would show people that the Church isn't self-focused but focused on its mission to the world.

Was it the very next temple that was built?, it was an extravagant thing...

We really wouldn't now where our tithing has been spent - there is no accounting to the church's members.

Tithing is primarily used to build and maintain chapels, temples and schools. Strange as it seems, I have never heard of tithing going to programs that address poverty, hunger and homelesness. If I am wrong, it would please me very much that at least a morsel of my widow's mite has gone to actually liberate the captive.

Now, there are "fast offerings" (that primarily is used to dole out money to make house payments in your ward or stake) and the "church humanitarian fund" (funnels funds to disaster type aid organizations like the Red Cross) among other things.

Flame me or agree with me on the direction of our hard earned money after it is delivered to the bishop.

We really have no idea do we?

That is just wrong.

[_Gazelam]

http://www.providentliving.org/project/0,13501,4607-1-2005,00.html

[_Roger Morrison]

Gaz, thanks for that site-page from the official LDS www. A lot of information there re "Good-works"... I don't think many are in total ignorance of LDS efforts in this regard... Confirms LDSism contributes positively. This cannot be denied...

However, this "Disclosure" is 'partial-outgo' and doesn't reveal 'total-income' which is the major question in many minds. I think time-will-come when such will not be kept secret. Little reason to be so, IMSCO... Enjoy yer day! Warm regards, Roger

[_harmony]

Gaz, thanks for that site-page from the official LDS www. A lot of information there re "Good-works"... I don't think many are in total ignorance of LDS efforts in this regard... Confirms LDSism contributes positively. This cannot be denied...

However, this "Disclosure" is 'partial-outgo' and doesn't reveal 'total-income' which is the major question in many minds. I think time-will-come when such will not be kept secret. Little reason to be so, IMSCO... Enjoy yer day! Warm regards, Roger

If the Brethren are making correct decisions with the Lord's money, there is no reason for not releasing full disclosure. Only if the money if used for things not within the scope of the church is there reason to keep the books closed. There was reason to close them in the first place (it's in Quinn; no one has ever refuted it, so it stands as correct). Surely there is no reason to keep them closed now. Unless, of course, the Brethren really do not want the faithful to see exactly how much the Conference Center, the Main Street Plaza, and the new mall actually cost, and which fund all that money came from. These were not projects like rebuliding the Nauvoo temple, financed through contributions expressly for that purpose. These were built and/or bought with tithing money.

And until these guys die, things will not change. They're too old and set in their ways to ever hear a command from God, even if it is shouted in their ear. Something to look forward to.