Daniel Peterson wrote:I'm going to be quite serious, too. I'm drawn to the bad guys because one of my principal reasons for coming here is my fascination with extraordinarily bad behavior over religious issues.
So then... you are drawn to such things as Bill Hamblin's anti-Semetic rant, which he delivered in a fit of apoplectic rage to RfM? Or to Allen Wyatt's cybersquatting? Or juliann's manipulation of sources? Or Lance Starr's attempts to attack Tom Murphy? Or Pahoran---my goodness, Pahoran!---and his long list of misdeeds? (E.g., telling a suidical person s/he deserved it; publishing private information; putting people's lives in danger, etc., etc.---oh, wait: that's right. You said you considered Pahoran to be a
kind, thoughtful individual.)
I've long been absolutely riveted by egregious bigotry on the part of some evangelicals, and I'm intrigued to see it coming from secularists, as well.
You actually don't really care about "bigotry" you only care about defending the LDS Church, and that's it. Having any solid morals is irrelevant when it comes to this for you. You either don't see this, or you won't see it.
I don't come to places like this for substantive discussion. I don't believe it possible, and only a few people here are equipped to engage in it in any event.
It *is* possible. The reason it doesn't seem that way to you is that half the time you refuse to answer or address genuine questions.
I am, in fact, not dismissive and condescending -- except of people like Some Schmo (with whom I never, ever, initiate matters), who merit nothing more than dismissal. I have many, many flaws, but elitism isn't among those flaws. It never has been. I don't come from an elite background.
I would like to take you at your word, but your actions contradict what you're saying. Otherwise, why would you carry on in the Gee thread about Gee's and Bokovoy's university achievements? Why would you boast about the various bigwigs and dignitaries you hang out with? Open mouth, insert foot, Prof. P.
I have never for a moment denied that there are legitimate issues regarding Mormon beliefs.
Oh, really? Then what are they? You have always, so far as I know, refused to say.
I never respond in a sneering or condescending way to serious people with serious questions.
Yes, you do.
I do not, however, feel any obligation to grovel with reverence toward people like Some Schmo, who, in my experience with them anyway, are consistently aggressive, insulting, and nonsubstantive. It strikes me as truly bizarre that you write to fault me for responding, but fail to notice the continuous and consistently juvenile attacks to which I'm responding.
Have you not read the silly and juvenile posts I have gotten from wenglund, Pahoran, smac, asbestosman, the Nehor, LifeOnaPlate, etc., etc., etc.? This doesn't mean that I somehow magically get justification to condescend to them (though I confess that I have done that), does it? Or are you advocating a "two wrongs make a right" sort of approach?
You know, I noticed on the other thread that you performed a stunning about-face after Guy Sajer apologized to you. Really, I don't think I have ever seen such a sea change in your behavior. Is that all it takes? You had been carrying on, ridiculing him for Lord know's how many posts, and then---a magnificent flip-flop. Have you ever wondered if others would treat you in the same way? I.e., maybe you ought to apologize for some of
your misdeeds? Or is Rollo right about you: that you are just the same as the institutional Church---incapable of apology and accepting culpability?
I disagree with your claim that, when conversations predictably become about one person whenever they participate in conversations, the problem is always partly their fault. On at least two occasions, once on an evangelical message board and once on a secularizing ex-Mormon list, I simply posted an opening introduction and then was pinned to the wall for the next several days by insults and attacks. I know for a fact that I don't have to do anything at all for my sheer presence to provoke certain people.
I don't think this would be a problem (or at least as much as a problem) if you would simply own up to your mistakes and misdeeds. It is always easier to forgive on with a contrite heart. But it is very hard to forgive someone whose heart is hardened with arrogance.
In any event, I'm going to be away for at least a month. Perhaps the quality and depth of discussions here will soar. But I doubt it.
Well, I hope you have a wonderful trip. Don't forget to write! ; )