Mormon Internet Battles and Anonymity

[_Chap]

Give little Nephi a break. He likely just read some early LDS Utah history: closed market; men at power, very suspicious of those outside.

I would agree too with Nephi's evident suspicions about the coverage of US media in relation to the 'outside world'. Anyone who relies on (say) Fox News will get a very strangely skewed picture of the affairs of our global village.

But there are other parts of the Western media that give a much clearer and fuller picture - the point about China is that pretty well all news sources are muzzled by the government. Last time I was there you could not even access the BBC news website, the reason being that unlike CNN (which I could get) the BBC also has a Chinese version, which the government deems to be too (shall we say) distracting for its populace to be allowed to read.

[_Nephi]

Where to start??? China is a sweatshop economy. There are no child labor laws.

Less that 100 years ago, the US didn't have child labor laws either, so our s*** stank too at one point. China is changing laws daily, and children are getting more rights as time progresses.

They imprison/execute those that speak out against the single party system.

Yeah, and the US has never done anything like this (*cough* Gitmo *cough*).

They will murder (abort) your second and subsequent children.

Recently this has not been the case. They are more likely to put the child up for adoption than to force abortion (though American media would tell you different. I am sure there is no biasness nor desire to skew the story so that people would buy their news).

I believe they are even exempt of the Kioto treaty.

Whops! Better rethink this one. Its called the Kyoto treaty, and this is an environmental treaty here. Guess what? China did sign it. Guess who has yet to sign it? Yep. Good ole USofA (see here).

People work 19 hours and make equivelent to $3 a day.

I won't argue the $3/day part, but I need a CFR on the 19 hour days being the norm. Besides, the cost of living there is gobs cheaper than it is here, and $3 goes a lot farther than you think it does there.

Over 30,000,000 human beings have been murdered under communism since 1921 for "crimes" of conscience (or is it 300 million?). Did you miss the memo?

Again, CFR here please. Also, there have been countless murders in the name of freedom by our government in the last 50 years (see Vietnam, see Iraq).

My point here isn't that the the US is bad. Moreso, that we are no better than China. China is an old country transitioning through its industrial revolution very quickly, and we are seeing the tail tail marks of it. All that you have mentioned here either the US is currently guilty of, or has been guilty of in the past, so I cannot say that the argument is a good argument. I am in no way saying that China is better than anyone else, only that they are guilty of crimes that even the worlds greatest country is or was guilty of.

[MODERATOR NOTE: Please do not use the "S" word in the Terrestrial Forum. Thank you!]

[_karl61]

Give little Nephi a break. He likely just read some early LDS Utah history: closed market; men at power, very suspicious of those outside.

I would agree too with Nephi's evident suspicions about the coverage of US media in relation to the 'outside world'. Anyone who relies on (say) Fox News will get a very strangely skewed picture of the affairs of our global village.

But there are other parts of the Western media that give a much clearer and fuller picture - the point about China is that pretty well all news sources are muzzled by the government. Last time I was there you could not even access the BBC news website, the reason being that unlike CNN (which I could get) the BBC also has a Chinese version, which the government deems to be too (shall we say) distracting for its populace to be allowed to read.

let me add destruction of a free press.

[_dartagnan]

I would agree too with Nephi's evident suspicions about the coverage of US media in relation to the 'outside world'. Anyone who relies on (say) Fox News will get a very strangely skewed picture of the affairs of our global village.

But there are other parts of the Western media that give a much clearer and fuller picture - the point about China is that pretty well all news sources are muzzled by the government. Last time I was there you could not even access the BBC news website, the reason being that unlike CNN (which I could get) the BBC also has a Chinese version, which the government deems to be too (shall we say) distracting for its populace to be allowed to read.

Fox is no worse than BBC or CNN. And I think most of this "evil western media" cliché is just nonsense. If we cannot get a decent picture from western media, then where do you suppose it comes from, eastern media?

You are actually trying to be funny?

[_dartagnan]

My point here isn't that the the US is bad.

Coulda fooled me.

Moreso, that we are no better than China.

We are better than China. You've been swindled by the multicultural relativists into thinking all cultures, governments, countries are equal in every sense that matters. The only thing China can brag about is the economy, which came at the expense of the sweat and blood of the people who are coerced daily.

These are hard facts that cannot be dismissed by an appeal to anti-western media nonsense.

China is an old country transitioning through its industrial revolution very quickly, and we are seeing the tail tail marks of it.

And why did America, which is an extremely young country, transition through it so quickly. Because the government is better. It isn't perfect, but it sure beats dictatorships and communism. These systems stunt progress in every sense.

You remind of the guys who insist Islam is reforming and will eventually embrace universal human rights, religious freedoms, etc., just because Judaism and Christianity did. It has been 14 centuries and Islam hasn't even come close to moving in that direction. All things are not equal, and it isn't bigotry to say so. It is established fact. You're one of the mythmakers.

Incidentally, I don't think it was necessary for America or Australia to sign the Kyoto accord. The cost-benefit analysis was hotly debated, and it seemed like we would end up paying for the brunt of it when it is China that produces most of the toxins in the atmosphere.

[_Chap]

JNClone: I would agree too with Nephi's evident suspicions about the coverage of US media in relation to the 'outside world'. Anyone who relies on (say) Fox News will get a very strangely skewed picture of the affairs of our global village.

But there are other parts of the Western media that give a much clearer and fuller picture - the point about China is that pretty well all news sources are muzzled by the government. Last time I was there you could not even access the BBC news website, the reason being that unlike CNN (which I could get) the BBC also has a Chinese version, which the government deems to be too (shall we say) distracting for its populace to be allowed to read.

Fox is no worse than BBC or CNN.

I suppose that is largely a matter of taste. The important thing about living in most Western countries is that we have a choice. If you enjoy Fox News, and think it gives you an adequate picture of world affairs, go ahead.

And I think most of this "evil western media" cliché is just nonsense. If we cannot get a decent picture from western media, then where do you suppose it comes from, eastern media?

I did not say anything to suggest I believed that all western media were "evil", and I don't see how you could have got that idea from what I wrote. I do think, however, that the picture-driven agenda of television news makes it somewhat unbalanced compared to the analysis you can get from a print journal such as Foreign Affairs or The Economist. Even more popular journals like Time or Newsweek are far superior to anything you will get through the TV.

[_dartagnan]

I suppose that is largely a matter of taste. The important thing about living in most Western countries is that we have a choice. If you enjoy Fox News, and think it gives you an adequate picture of world affairs, go ahead.

I also think it has more to do with interests, than it does to do with accurate representation. From my neck of the woods in the SE USA, most people do not seem to care about what goes on in the rest of the world; at least for the most part. The BBC has a segment called Middle-East Business, which would be nothing short of boring for most Fox viewers, I would imagine.

Fox is geared to appeal to the quintessential American. There is a segment called 80 seconds around the world, where the announcer speeds across a script highlighting major events around the world, but apparently 80 seconds is all they think is necessary to satisfy the audience's interests. Fox spends more time with the heartland issues, especially those invloving the political debates. They do a good job of getting representatives of boths sides to hash their perspectives, even though sometimes it gets heated. Sometimes I turn on Fox and it is like watching the Oprah Winfrey show, as they are talking about silly issues, like how some old woman in Maryland has the largest pen collection in the world. The whole time I am thinking, so what!

I did not say anything to suggest I believed that all western media were "evil", and I don't see how you could have got that idea from what I wrote. I do think, however, that the picture-driven agenda of television news makes it somewhat unbalanced compared to the analysis you can get from a print journal such as Foreign Affairs or The Economist. Even more popular journals like Time or Newsweek are far superior to anything you will get through the TV.

True, but the news in America is no different from news elsewhere. TV news is the fast food version of current events. Here in Brazil it is no different.

[_harmony]

There is a segment called 80 seconds around the world, where the announcer speeds across a script highlighting major events around the world, but apparently 80 seconds is all they think is necessary to satisfy the audience's interests.

I suspect this is a play on Around the World in 80 Days.

[_Nephi]

My point here isn't that the the US is bad.

Coulda fooled me.

Heh... If Ima mythmaker as you say later on in this post, then I question your motives in trying to make my words say something it does not.

Moreso, that we are no better than China.

We are better than China. You've been swindled by the multicultural relativists into thinking all cultures, governments, countries are equal in every sense that matters.

I never said that. There are countries out there that are not equal to others. Once again, you are trying to make my words say something they did not.

The only thing China can brag about is the economy, which came at the expense of the sweat and blood of the people who are coerced daily.

Yeah, thank God America never did that during their industrial revolution.

And why did America, which is an extremely young country, transition through it so quickly. Because the government is better. It isn't perfect, but it sure beats dictatorships and communism. These systems stunt progress in every sense.

Their industrial revolution didn't really start until the late 80s or so. They are rapidly progressing thanks to the trial and errors of other industrialized nations out there.

It has been 14 centuries and Islam hasn't even come close to moving in that direction.

14 centuries after the start of Christianity, there was not exactly equal rights of men and women either.

Incidentally, I don't think it was necessary for America or Australia to sign the Kyoto accord. The cost-benefit analysis was hotly debated, and it seemed like we would end up paying for the brunt of it when it is China that produces most of the toxins in the atmosphere.

Strange that China did sign it then, doncha think?

[_Inconceivable]

Nephi,

I spelled Kiyoto wrong and China signed it.

Clearly you are absolutely right. If you would be so kind as to push a second helping of cabbage broth through the hole in my door I'll get back to work making rubber dog poop for you.