Who has been where I am? Questioning. Where did you end up?

[_mms]

MMS, here. Some of you may know my story from MA&D. I am a thirty-something HP who has served in various ward and stake leadership positions. RM, married in temple (still happily married). I was taught on my mission to run from "anti" materials like they were a naked woman (for those who don't know, missionaries are not supposed to spend time with naked women). It was clear that if something might cause doubt, I was encouraged not to read it. Not all that long ago, a respected leader suggested that Rough Stone Rolling was a good book by a faithful patriarch and would provide far more insight into Joseph Smith. I picked it up. I started reading. My jaw dropped a number of times. I started looking on the internet, still afraid of "anti" materials, so I ended up at FAIR. I read many, many articles, fair wiki, etc. These were supposed to be "faith-promoting" materials, but they were "faith-damaging" in that I had trouble, sincerely, with the arguments--many of them seemed like such a stretch. I kept this stuff to myself, with an occasional discussion with my wife (now she is fully aware of my concerns and is very supportive of me, is not panicking, and, quite frankly is awesome because she is so loyal).

So, not getting much help from the fair and farms articles, and feeling angry (admittedly) because I thought the Church could have and should have done far more to ensure I did not end up in this shocked and surprised state. I lurked briefly at the MA&D board and jumped in too quickly--not knowing exactly what went on there. I thought that these were the people who could help me get to where I needed to get. I explained my situation, how I did not feel like I would intellectually overcome my doubts because the case seemed lopsided against the church in various ways, and that I knew I needed to turn to the Spirit. But I was questioning that (the Spirit) because of a confusion about the distinction between the "warm fuzzies" and the feeling sof the Spirit. I had recently discovered the "Heartsell" method of Bonneville Communications and used it as an exampleof why I was confused about identifying the Spirit.

Well, as you might imagine, I was immediately attcked by the very people I thought would be interested in reaching out to me. They said I was a fraud, a troll (didn't know what that was at the time), an anti posign as a concerned HP, etc. They went nuts on me. Some people were helpful, but they were drowned out by the loud angry voices of Pahoran, Selek, etc. I got defensive quickly and was suspended pretty quickly. I was naïve as it regarded the mesage boards and still am to some extent. They made me pay for that naïvété. I decided not to go back, but then thought I should try to make another go of discussing matters rationally with these folks. My major issue was the apparent belief by many over there that the average active member of the church should actually know about matters that have been intentionally avoided by the church in an effort to portray an "adoring history." It seemed so obvious to me that the church had significant responsibility and these people would be so hard on people for not knowing about polyandry and Joseph Smith's plural marriage issues, etc. So I stayed in the discussion and thought I made some pretty good arguments on the matter, even though I was suspended several times. But I was attacked continually and my "story" was constantly questioned. Selek continues to think that I am some kind of troll who, according to his latest rant, will spend an eternity in hell.

So, oddly, although i did not expect it, I was agreeing more often with the critics than the "defenders" although a review of my posts will, I think, bear out that I made no critical remarks about the church of any significance except that I think the church was indeed responsible--to some degree--for my current state of surprise, doubt and confusion. it is almost as if the defenders decided right from the start that I was a lost cause (with some exceptions--there are indeed a few over there who seem really disciplined and almost never, or never, go on the offensive--they seem the most secure with their faith as a result).

So here I sit considering how to proceed. I talked to my Bishop (with whom I am pretty close). He knew nothing about any of the issues I am concerned with and basically said that he has never looked at the issues, because he does not think he could "handle it." That was helpful :) He is a great guy, though, and his heart is clearly in the right place.

So, sorry for the long story, but for those who have been here--if you have--what happened? Where did you end up and why?

(A little more information about me (I am being quite careful, because I think anonymity is important in my situation), but I am a fairly well-established professional with the respect of many in my ward and stake for my service in the ward and in the stake. Of the five members of my family who joined the church, the others have had nothing to do with the church for at least twenty years (but none have resigned simply because they are too lazy and don't care, so they are part of the 13 million.)

by the way -still totally active and holding a calling.

[_harmony]

I have been where you are. Well, I've been where you are as far as possible, since I'm female.

When I first found out the real history of the church, I shredded the boards for a while. Consequently, I've been banned from most LDS boards. It's a badge I've begun to wear with honor. When asking for explanations of the things that shocked me, the arguments were so convoluted, so torturously circular that it became abundantly clear that not only had I been lied to (by both omission and commission), but they'd twisted the lies into such corkscrews that it all became my fault.

I am, like you, a TR carrying active tithe paying member with multiploe callings. Like you, I have been accused of being a liar, a troll, an anti- in sheep's clothing. I've been told I'm stupid, lacking in intelligence and logic (and humor), and foolish for believing what I as taught for 35 years. I am a convert, married in the temple, mother to 6 sons and 2 daughters, who lived the LDS woman's existence to the max for years. We were dirt poor, trying to live the gospel. It never occured to me that the leaders were living off my sacrifice and my husband's hard work. I believed them, all of them, everything they said. I thought my situation was my fault, that I just wasn't a good enough homemaker to stretch $20,000 a year around 10 people.

Currently, I am my ward's webmaster and the bulletin lady. My bishop loves me, as do my visiting teachers. I rarely attend church (I always know who is speaking, so I pick the days I attend very carefully). My health is bad enough to allow me to get away with not attending and still keep my recommend. My youngest will go through the temple in December. With any luck, that will be the last time I ever have to go.

I have major complaints about a few things:

1. the way women are treated. Piggybacking on that is my intense hatred of the POTF.
2. the lies surrounding the worship of Joseph Smith.
3. the lack of authority surrounding the priesthood (don't you think someone would have recorded something so important as the restoration of the highest priesthood?), and the consequent lack of authority to create the church.
4. the money, and the lack of accountability.

[_Zoidberg]

I like consistency and I just couldn't find it in the Church's policies or teachings. Attempting to be consistent, I tried to apply their preferred method of determining the truth of the Book of Mormon (feeling good) to trying to figure out whether or not certain things are "true", like mandatory polygyny, blood-thirsty God who hates gays, prophets never leading the Church astray, etc. The results were negative, of course.

I was previously willing to discount the past embarrassing things done by the Lord's annointed, the priesthood ban being one of them. Until I learned that even today unthinking obedience is demanded by GBH of the "faithful", expressed by showing support to whatever position the First Presidency takes.

I realized that I was incapable of such obedience. The paradigm might change later on, but GBH probably wouldn't have defined me as someone particularly faithful or loyal to the Church even before it became apparent to me that I don't believe a major portion of the Church's teachings is true. So no point in being a hypocrite and denying the obvious; assuming the Church is either true or a fraud, in absolute terms, as the current prophet puts it, I have to say it's the latter.

[_Polygamy Porter]

If you are not offended by copious amounts of verbal punctuation, read my experiences here:
http://mormondiscussions.com/discuss/vi ... .php?t=426

Short version:

I always had questions, but remained a member out of duty to family and being raised in it... Not RM, but did marry in temple.

Questioned the pre 1990 temple ceremony, left it on the shelf until 2004 when my BIL brought up horses in the Book of Mormon.

I googled.

and googled, and googled, and googled, and googled, and googled, and googled, and.. posted on fair(pre MAAD), RfM, ZLMB, Foyer(defunct now) and of course Shady Acres...

Big hitters for me? Papyrus, poly/gamy/andry, Briggie's actions and teachings(along with many others), MMM, Temperance movement, Swedenborg, Spalding, Captain William Morgan, the stone in the hat was an embarrassment, masonry and temple ceremony and its changes, membership number accounting...

Three months later I told my bishop he had two weeks to replace me in my callings and to cancel my HT assignment and visits.

My wife and I had the pleasure of meeting with Grant Palmer at his home and speaking with him for over four hours. His book was great for my wife and I.
Wife stayed in for nearly three years. Soon realized what I realized and now we are all happily sleeping in on the day of rest!

My wife is such a happy person now. So confident!

Remember this, you will have control over your life and more importantly, the lives of your children once you leave TSCC. Mormons do not hold the corner on the market of nice or successful families.

Remember to laugh early and often. Daily doses of [url="http://www.salamandersociety.com/slamtoons/"]Slamtoons[/url] is highly recommended.

Learn to cuss well.

[_James Muir]

by the way -still totally active and holding a calling.

I am new to this board. I have been boarless for two years since utterly banished from the Old FAIR board. I will not sneak in. I lately talked to the man behind the green curtain at FAIR and told Daniel something he had never considered before. All he could say was some pompous self-congratulatory slop. I fear he will never stand upright if he ever did.

Nevermind all that. I am completely naïve about this Joseph Smith sexcapades that seems to be sinking everyone's faith. For the first ten years of my born again spiritual life I read all the standard works and most of the teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith each, once every year. Twenty five years ago I finished solving every LDS dilemma I was aware of. I am the only man who comprehends the real Adam for instance. People are not ready to hear it. He is not God, never was, never will be. Yet Joseph Smith did say that he was the father of our spirit bodies...heh heh heh, please do not ask. not yet.

So hit me with this----what I shall for now call--- Joseph Smith bullcrap, and let me try to field it. I love the Prophet Joseph Smith with all my heart, as if he were my only best mortal friend. Yet my faith will not be dimmed even slightly if he falls. I will be 100% honest.

I could not care less who you are. I do care who who might become, however.

[_Polygamy Porter]

by the way -still totally active and holding a calling.

I am new to this board. I have been boarless for two years since utterly banished from the Old FAIR board. I will not sneak in. I lately talked to the man behind the green curtain at FAIR and told Daniel something he had never considered before. All he could say was some pompous self-congratulatory slop. I fear he will never stand upright if he ever did.

Nevermind all that. I am completely naïve about this Joseph Smith sexcapades that seems to be sinking everyone's faith. For the first ten years of my born again spiritual life I read all the standard works and most of the teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith each, once every year. Twenty five years ago I finished solving every LDS dilemma I was aware of. I am the only man who comprehends the real Adam for instance. People are not ready to hear it. He is not God, never was, never will be. Yet Joseph Smith did say that he was the father of our spirit bodies...heh heh heh, please do not ask. not yet.

So hit me with this----what I shall for now call--- Joseph Smith bullcrap, and let me try to field it. I love the Prophet Joseph Smith with all my heart, as if he were my only best mortal friend. Yet my faith will not be dimmed even slightly if he falls. I will be 100% honest.

I could not care less who you are. I do care who who might become, however.

Dear GAWD! It is Paul Osborne's lost twin.


We have heard it all fool.

If you want to brandish your shoulder mounted s*** throwing testimonkey, please take it to the mindless Celestial forum.

And let me guess, you are an older single male, who is partially inactive.

[_Belial]

by the way -still totally active and holding a calling.

I am new to this board. I have been boarless for two years since utterly banished from the Old FAIR board. I will not sneak in. I lately talked to the man behind the green curtain at FAIR and told Daniel something he had never considered before. All he could say was some pompous self-congratulatory slop. I fear he will never stand upright if he ever did.

Nevermind all that. I am completely naïve about this Joseph Smith sexcapades that seems to be sinking everyone's faith. For the first ten years of my born again spiritual life I read all the standard works and most of the teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith each, once every year. Twenty five years ago I finished solving every LDS dilemma I was aware of. I am the only man who comprehends the real Adam for instance. People are not ready to hear it. He is not God, never was, never will be. Yet Joseph Smith did say that he was the father of our spirit bodies...heh heh heh, please do not ask. not yet.

So hit me with this----what I shall for now call--- Joseph Smith bullcrap, and let me try to field it. I love the Prophet Joseph Smith with all my heart, as if he were my only best mortal friend. Yet my faith will not be dimmed even slightly if he falls. I will be 100% honest.

I could not care less who you are. I do care who who might become, however.

No one else understands Adam as you do..... To quote Two Week's Notice, "Now that's just ridiculous.....do you know everyone in the world?" To be blunt, several LDS believe the same as far as you've revealed your beliefs about Adam. I'm not sure you're unique.

[_sunstoned]

MMS,
Though you might feel otherwise, the fact is you are not alone. Many on this board have had very similar experiences. I was BIC, RM, TM, and a BYU grad who took all the classes to be a seminary teacher. And guess what? I was never taught about multiple first visions, polyandry, lying for the lord, or KEP and the problems with the Book of Abraham translation. Oh, I heard rumors of these things (this was pre-internet), but I was told by my Mission Pres, and latter my instructors at the Y that these were anti Mormon lies.
It all started to unwind when my good friend, who happened to be my Bishop, was released and excommunicated all on the same day when his 9 year affair became public. The man’s honesty or lack of it was not the big issue with me. It was the whole called by authority and revelation thing. As I tried to make sense of this, and come up with a justification, it occurred to me that I had been living on borrowed light. I began a fasting/prayer/study program to sure up my testimony. After six months it became clear to me that I was not a person God wanted to talk to. My new Bishop and several TBM friends could not seem to help. I then started to look around on the internet for some type of support group. Google is not the churches friend.
Once the truth became known to me, everything fell in place. All the stuff that was on the shelf for years now made sense, and there was no going back. Leaving the church was the hardest thing I have ever done, It was my life, all my family and extended family were Uber TBMs. I was in mourning for months, or maybe years. It’s been 5 years now. But there was light on the other side for me. I now feel much more in control of my life, and I’m much happier than I have been in years.
I found FAIR (now MAD) after I had gone though what I call my awakening. Contrary to what they might think, the people on that board are doing the church no favors. In the past few years I have seen many people like you, who come to the board with some honest questions get totally abused. in my opinion those people are not posting over there to help out the lurkers. They are too busy trying to convince themselves they are right.

[_moksha]

Mms, I was aware of a number of issues when I rejoined the Church about four years ago. Knowing these issues ahead of time has helped me adapt my faith in a more realistic manner. That is not so with the wide eyed innocence of many born into the Church who confront these issues for the first time.

I think we are all on our own spiritual pathway, and any alteration should be given due diligence in the refining process. It would be hard to make it through life without questioning or re-questioning why we believe what we belief.

I hope you can find your answers.

[_Wilma Fingerdoo]

MMS,

So, sorry for the long story, but for those who have been here--if you have--what happened? Where did you end up and why?

by the way -still totally active and holding a calling.

Hello all first post on this site. MMS I too read your questions and comments over at MADB and thought you were sincere and thoughtful. Personally I think many of the "faithful" posters over there need a spiritual enema.

I am in a similar situation. BIC, mission, married in temple, BYU athlete and Grad. I was a member who was very gung ho up through my mid 30's then became frustrated with my view of what I should be getting out of the church. I shared my feelings with friends and family members and my bishop told me that my problem was I needed to understand Joseph Smith's life better. I read some church approved books he loaned me then one day at work I was bored and started googling. The first site I clicked on was RFM. My first reaction was I was going to be found out and ex'ed the next Sunday, but I started reading some of the topics and was shocked. Here I had been a member all my life and hadn't heard much about the shadier parts of Joseph Smith life. Needless the say the more I read my testimony of anything church became negative and bitter.

Now I find myself "inactive" with an active wife and children. I want to leave but will wait until the weddings are done. If I have to I will allow the brethren to "reactivate me" long enough to fake the bishop into getting a temple recommend so I can attend my children's weddings unless they choose not to marry in the temple (If this happens I might gift them that 10% I would have had to pay to do the temple thing). At the present time I don't have any callings though I held many callings before my awakening. Looking forward to reading more of your posts. From what I have read in the last few days this site has some interesting and funny posters.