charity wrote:The idea that the "narrow neck of land" is the Isthmus of Darien (Panama) has long been put to rest. Tehuantepec is the much more likely location. You can read more about it here.
Thanks for the link; I will print it and likely read it in the bubble bath tonight. But I'm very skeptical of this spot of ground because from what I’ve been able to surmise it does not conform to the descriptive text of the Book of Mormon. I’m looking for a one and a half day journey from east to west – no more and no less. I’ve gone over the Book of Mormon text quite carefully and just can’t see that fat Mexican neck fit the bill. As far as accuracy is concerned I have no reason to think that the one and a half day journey across the boundary of the neck is any more or less than the word of God as preserved in the most accurate book on the face of the earth. I may have a problem looking upward into heavens' blue sky and telling God this is the spot. He might not like me telling him that this neck was the neck of the Book of Mormon.
When I tell God something, it better be the truth. Look, either that Mexican neck is the true neck or it is not. Bottom line: It is either yeah or nay, anything other than that comes from evil.
So, with that said, I’ll take another look at that neck based on the link you gave me. But I have a bad feeling about it.
It was a short article so I’ve briefly looked it over for now. Well, Sorenson’s Mexican runners ran up to 100 miles in a day! That’s quite a feat. But could they continue on for many more mile after that without falling dead with exhaustion? The neck in question is some 120 miles wide at the most narrow point – and that is how the bird flies. But there are mountains and hills along the entire way which adds considerable more mileage to the real trip at hand. When you go up and down hills and mountains it adds a whole new dimension.
I wonder if Sorenson’s runners were on fairly level ground. If that be the case, they surely couldn’t have done the hills and mountains trip because there just ain’t enough hours during waking hours of the day to run it. Can a Nephite run and paddle across the Tehuantepec in a day and a half – up hills and mountains, crossing streams, rocks, and rivers? That sounds like a story to me. But I’ll give it some thought.
The text of the Book of Mormon makes it clear that a Nephite can make the trip in a day and half. Whether he be the greatest athlete in Nephite history or a common man in good health is not for me to say. But I look at the land on Google earth and I can honestly say there is no way that I (age 45) could make the trip on foot or on river in a day and a half. That is too much walking and paddling along a rugged way to make it seem feasible. Not to mention the whole stretch of land needed to be amply guarded lest sneaky Lamanites crossed through the borders at night.
It doesn’t sound good, but I’ll think on it some more. Has anyone ever tried to make the trip accros the Tehuantepec in a day and a half? has this been tested? It needs to be tested. The Maxwell Intitute needs to send a few brave men to see if they can actually do it. Until the actual trip is tested it is just talk and no walk. Let them set a course how ever they like through land and river and see if the best athletes at BYU can make the course without falling dead before reaching the other side. What would it take to fund this exhibition? I venture to say there are thousands of people both in and out of the Church that would help fund this mission. Let us see if this neck of land can pass a basic test required by the Book of Mormon.
Paul Osborne wrote: What would it take to fund this exhibition? I venture to say there are thousands of people both in and out of the Church that would help fund this mission. Let us see if this neck of land can pass a basic test required by the Book of Mormon.
Paul O
Even if someone funded such an expedition, it wouldn't prove much. The sea levels may be different now. etc. Check out Larry Poulsen's website. He does a lot with google earth and knows the area extremely well. He is a real expert. I think you wil enjoy reading his stuff.
Actually, Charity, it would prove a lot. It would prove whether the course across this terrain is doable or not based on the terrain that currently exists. That’s a start, anyway. If we are not willing to learn things from the start then we are not being very objective about the whole thing. It may be that the land and water has not changed at all. What do scientists say? Is there fear in what may result if such a test was conducted?
I’ll find out more about Larry Poulsen’s website. I just looked at his opening page and it looks interesting.
moksha wrote:Thos who built the Panama Canal certainly learned you could not walk that distance in that time. What about up by the Great Lakes region?
The Great Lakes region mystifies me if it really is Zarahemla. I’ve been looking at all possible places wherein a narrow neck could be identified. But so far it’s not materialized in my view. I’ve even considered Baja California and have spent many hours studying its terrain.
I’ve looked over the Panama neck too, but it has some drawbacks in meeting required points mentioned in Book of Mormon text.
Paul Osborne wrote:Where the heck is the narrow neck of land spoken of in the Book of Mormon - the same which divides the north from the south, surrounded by water? A Nephite can walk the distance from east to west in a day and a half.
The Isthmus of Niagra is the only geographical feature that meets all Book of Mormon requirements for the Narrow Neck of Land.
"Finally, for your rather strange idea that miracles are somehow linked to the amount of gay sexual gratification that is taking place would require that primitive Christianity was launched by gay sex, would it not?"
Some of the speculating is useless. While there are those who think that the destruction which attended the crucifixion of the Savior did not deform the land beyond recognition (since Mormon could still identify major land featrues), it is not kown how much the features were changed.
And if you read carefully, Alma does not say they actually started with their feet in the water, and ended up with wet feet. I have a friend who lives "on the coast" of Oregon, and it is 20 miles to water.
Although the land was broken up and the rocks cracked due to the shaking of the earth it is reasonable to assume that the basic geographical shape of the Book of Mormon bounderies were constant. There was the narrow neck and the two lands: North and south. Some cities were sunk suggesting that the coastslines were deformed to some degree. But there remained a "narrow neck", nonetheless.
Charity, you infer that I need to read the Book of Mormon text carefully. Well, I’ve done that more times than I have fingers and toes. Look, the trip across the narrow neck is from sea to sea, thus, feet in the sands of the eastern sea and feet in the sands of the western sea. Common sense tells me that it is what Alma meant even though he did not spell it out in plain English like you might require. Indeed, the distance of a Nephite in traversing the neck is from beach to beach – putting it plainly, that’s the west beach on one side of the land and the east beach on the other side. The whole line must be fortified lest the Lamanites sneak through. The Nephite generals understood this quite well.