Help! My bro was just called by a Scientologist

[_Sethbag]

Wow, I made it to Sethbag's tagline. I'm flattered. You really thought my remarks were that good, huh? Heh.

Yeah, it was a great remark. I rotate my taglines from time to time, as most here do. Your comment was very insightful and certainly deserves a quote. You and Jason Bourne have continued to impress me with how well you both sometimes understand the critics' position and point of view, even if you both, for your own reasons, end up coming down on the side of the church. The fact is, and you recognize this, that maintaining religious faith seems to be an unnatural act, which must be decided upon (or conditioned in one) and then continuously worked on. I think that's a big red flag. There's something wrong with the idea that a testimony of supreme universal truth about the universe we live in, and our very nature as sentient beings within it, is at constant risk of being overthrown if we don't incessantly repeat the mantras, immerse ourselves in the practices and teachings, and constantly remind ourselves and others how much we believe it.

[_Livingstone22]

This is freaky. My brother just got a phone call from a Scientologist. Normally I don't worry about religions, but I do worry about Scientology when it comes to my own family. I worry because I've seen videos and ready plenty about how they harass those who they do not like. I'm afraid my bro will be harassed if he contacts them.

So far, all they've done is call him on the phone. Personally I think it's freaky that they have his phone #. They said they just want to send him an email. If anyone knows how to stop the harassment before it begins, please let me know.

thanks,
Asbestosman

I'm sorry, I don't know why this is such a big deal. Are Scientologists known for being harassing? More or less so than the Mormons? But seriously, I spent a few hours on a personal tour in Hollywood some years ago at the Scientology building. The people I met were quite respectful and gracious.

[_asbestosman]

I'm sorry, I don't know why this is such a big deal. Are Scientologists known for being harassing? More or less so than the Mormons? But seriously, I spent a few hours on a personal tour in Hollywood some years ago at the Scientology building. The people I met were quite respectful and gracious.

I'm glad to hear they were respectful. It may merely have been media bias against them that makes me feel uncomfortable.

[_Livingstone22]

I'm sorry, I don't know why this is such a big deal. Are Scientologists known for being harassing? More or less so than the Mormons? But seriously, I spent a few hours on a personal tour in Hollywood some years ago at the Scientology building. The people I met were quite respectful and gracious.

I'm glad to hear they were respectful. It may merely have been media bias against them that makes me feel uncomfortable.

I just heard on the news that the German government was working to ban Scientology in their country because it was "unconstitutional." I wonder maybe there are things I don't know about....then, of course, the Belgian police once labeled the LDS church a "dangerous and destructive cult." Who knows?

[_asbestosman]

I just heard on the news that the German government was working to ban Scientology in their country because it was "unconstitutional." I wonder maybe there are things I don't know about....then, of course, the Belgian police once labeled the LDS church a "dangerous and destructive cult." Who knows?

I just read that too:

German leaders will seek to ban Scientology

The U.S. State Department regularly criticizes Germany in its annual Human Rights Report for the monitoring practice.

I'm not convinced that Germany is doing the right thing. Far from it in fact. I suspect this is religious prejudice and I shudder to think of what Germany would do to the LDS church if given the chance.

Belgium is a funny country. It's mostly Catholic and I believe it is government supported Catholicism. That may play into their views of LDS although they do not seem to call protestants a dangerous cult. When I served in that mission 10 years ago, Missionaries were supposed to cross into Holland at least every month or so because I guess Belgium didn't want us to be there soley for proselyting, or wouldn't give us a regular card for that effect. Holland, on the other hand, had no more problem with Mormons than it did with red light districts and marijuana. Oh well.

Holland was also the only place I met a guy who admitted to being a polygamist (and yes, he believed in the Book of Mormon).

[_gramps]

asbestosman wrote:

I'm not convinced that Germany is doing the right thing. Far from it in fact. I suspect this is religious prejudice and I shudder to think of what Germany would do to the LDS church if given the chance.

This seems over the top to me.

Tell us what you shudder to think about. Do you not think that the German government can see the difference between the two organizations? There are big differences, are there not?

And if you answer in the affirmative, which I suppose you will, what leads you to shudder? Can you provide some specific examples that would explain what seems to me to be your irrational fear of German government?

What would Mormons have to fear? Enlighten us!

[_Mister Scratch]

I just heard on the news that the German government was working to ban Scientology in their country because it was "unconstitutional." I wonder maybe there are things I don't know about....then, of course, the Belgian police once labeled the LDS church a "dangerous and destructive cult." Who knows?

I just read that too:

German leaders will seek to ban Scientology

The U.S. State Department regularly criticizes Germany in its annual Human Rights Report for the monitoring practice.

I'm not convinced that Germany is doing the right thing. Far from it in fact. I suspect this is religious prejudice and I shudder to think of what Germany would do to the LDS church if given the chance.

Not sure what you mean by this, ABman. After all, you'll no doubt recall that Church leaders were quite friendly with the Nazis during the late 1930s, and in fact there exists a photo of (I believe) the BYU basketball team giving the "Seig Heil!" salute.

[_asbestosman]

Tell us what you shudder to think about. Do you not think that the German government can see the difference between the two organizations? There are big differences, are there not?

I'm not convinced that there are big differences between the two organizations from a public safety / freedom point of view. The differences I see have to do with doctrine and authority--things with which a government should not be particularly concerned. in my opinion, the government ought to be concerned with protecting itself. I do not see how Scientology nor Mormonism are dangerous or different in this regard.

I'm curious though. What is it that you see that we do not? I imagine that since this is a bit closer to home for you that perhaps you know something about Scientology of which I am not aware. I freely admit my ignorance of Scientology which may very well play into my defense of them.

One might also argue that Mormonism has a history of working against the governemnt. I do not agree with such interpretations, but there was the Utah war for one where the federal government sent an army out to Utah. Let us also not forget the Mountain Meadows Massacre--I have heard no comparable stories about Scientology.

Scientology may be dangerous, or it may not. I have reason to believe that they leave people alone who leave them alone.

What would Mormons have to fear? Enlighten us!

That they would not be free to practice their religion in Germany. And Mormons wouldn't be the only ones so restricted. Perhaps I should clarify that I do not fear for their lives. I do not think Germany is some evil oppressive state that will execute those they disagree with. We're talking about Eurpoe which does not believe in the death penalty.

[_asbestosman]

Not sure what you mean by this, ABman. After all, you'll no doubt recall that Church leaders were quite friendly with the Nazis during the late 1930s, and in fact there exists a photo of (I believe) the BYU basketball team giving the "Seig Heil!" salute.

Not sure what you mean by that, Scratch. I don't think Germany is led by a murderous psychopath anymore. I also quite doubt that the church ever approved of genocide. That kind of dirt would be way too juicy.

My point was simply that restricting religious freedom does not sit well with me. I don't see how Scientology is particularly dangerous to a government or to the freedom of a people and therefore do not see why it should be banned. It is quite possible that I am missing something.

[_moksha]

After all, you'll no doubt recall that Church leaders were quite friendly with the Nazis during the late 1930s, and in fact there exists a photo of (I believe) the BYU basketball team giving the "Seig Heil!" salute.

Could you post it?