Which way did they go Joe?

[_charity]

.

The original question was: "Which way did they go Joe".

Your answer is "God did it for them". If that was the case, why even pretend? It would seem that Lehi would make a point of describing the miracles. He couldn't as he didn't exist outside of Joseph's and perhaps a few others' minds.

I was wrong in letting you derail me off of that part. If you wish to create a new thread, I'd be happy to join in. So I'll create a new thread and you can keep your points germaine to which route did Lehi take.

Miracles? See, this is where it would be useful to you to actually have read and studied the Book of Mormon instead of just "knowing of" it.

1 Nephi 7
Nephi's brothers bind his with cords, but the bands are loosed as Nephi prays: Miracle
1 Nephi 17
Liahona appears out of no where and gives them direction. Miracle.
1 Npehi 18
Nephi calms the storm on the ship. Miracle.

That is just in First Nephi.

I am telling you, talking about the route Lehi took in the Old World is pretty well established. Directions of travel match with the old spice trail. But from there on it says they got on the ship and after many days landed. That's it.

[_LCD2YOU]

The original question was: "Which way did they go Joe".

Your answer is "God did it for them". If that was the case, why even pretend? It would seem that Lehi would make a point of describing the miracles. He couldn't as he didn't exist outside of Joseph's and perhaps a few others' minds.

I was wrong in letting you derail me off of that part. If you wish to create a new thread, I'd be happy to join in. So I'll create a new thread and you can keep your points germaine to which route did Lehi take.

Miracles? See, this is where it would be useful to you to actually have read and studied the Book of Mormon instead of just "knowing of" it.

And by "knowing the Book of Mormon" you mean believe as you do? Couldn't the same be said about you when it comes the the Q'ran or the Vedic?

I have heard and read what you posted below. I don't consider them miracles by any stretch of the imagination.

1 Nephi 7
Nephi's brothers bind his with cords, but the bands are loosed as Nephi prays: Miracle

Yes, obviously. It couldn't be loose bonds, a poor knots, his ability to slip out of ropes

1 Nephi 17
Liahona appears out of no where and gives them direction. Miracle.

Or the boys waking from a drunken stupor, that they left out of course.

1 Npehi 18
Nephi calms the storm on the ship. Miracle.

That is just in First Nephi.

Those aren't miracles. I'd call them "plot devices".

I am telling you, talking about the route Lehi took in the Old World is pretty well established.

Wrong. The supposed route has been assumed, but if you are referring to "In the footprints of Lehi" please use a more reliable source.

Again you've made a claim, "The route of Lehi in the old world is well documented". It is not. Instead of argueing that here, take it to another thread like I've done with your other answers on "proof" that Joseph Smith was correct on things he couldn 't have known.

Directions of travel match with the old spice trail. But from there on it says they got on the ship and after many days landed. That's it.

And that's the problem. On what should have been one of the greatest adventures of their lives, the places they went, the people they saw, etc., we get bogged down in knot tying, drunken stupors, dream visions and calmiong of storms. Of course there is no evidence that they even existed so the "miracles" are nothing but plot devices put in by the author(s).

So, why do we get a great deal of minute detail about nothing but near absolute silence about the most important part, namely getting to the new world?

Also about your point that "it took days". Well 1000 days is still days. As you tried to say Thor "crossed the Pacific in 4 months" which turned out to be completely incorrect (and I've noted your silence on the subject) showed that it was a long journey at the very least.

So again, which way did Lehi go to make it to the new world?

[_charity]

Miracles? See, this is where it would be useful to you to actually have read and studied the Book of Mormon instead of just "knowing of" it.[/quote]And by "knowing the Book of Mormon" you mean believe as you do? Couldn't the same be said about you when it comes the the Q'ran or the Vedic? [/quote]

No, I don't mean believe it. I mean you said you "knew of" the Book of Mormon. You don't "know it." Most of the critics at least read the thing before they start criticizing. You obviously haven't. Your argument on another thread tha you were just trying to catch me in an error when you posted "how far could a Nephite walk" when the word was never used demonstrates that quite easily. Further down this post, I will show another glaring example of you not knowing what you are talking about.

I have heard and read what you posted below. I don't consider them miracles by any stretch of the imagination.

1 Nephi 16
Liahona appears out of no where and gives them direction. Miracle.

Or the boys waking from a drunken stupor, that they left out of course.

What??? You obviously haven't a clue as to what the Liahona was. Read about for the first time here:
1 Nephi 16 :9-10 And it came to pass that the voice of the Lord spake unto my father by night, and commanded him that on the morrow he should take his ajourney into the wilderness. And it came to pass that as my father arose in the morning, and went forth to the tent door, to his great astonishment he beheld upon the ground a round ball of curious workmanship; and it was of fine brass. And within the ball were two spindles; and the one pointed the way whither we should go into the wilderness.

That is just in First Nephi.[/quote]Those aren't miracles. I'd call them "plot devices".

I am telling you, talking about the route Lehi took in the Old World is pretty well established.

Wrong. The supposed route has been assumed, but if you are referring to "In the footprints of Lehi" please use a more reliable source. [/quote]

Another assumption. Shame, shame. Evidenlty my reading list is a little bit larger than yous, which appears to be a limited number of anti-Mormon sites which you parrot, never having read the Book of Mormon yourself. I refer to the works of Wellington and Potter, the Hiltons, Brown, Carr, McKinly.

Again you've made a claim, "The route of Lehi in the old world is well documented". It is not. Instead of argueing that here, take it to another thread like I've done with your other answers on "proof" that Joseph Smith was correct on things he couldn 't have known.

Directions of travel match with the old spice trail. But from there on it says they got on the ship and after many days landed. That's it.

And that's the problem. On what should have been one of the greatest adventures of their lives, the places they went, the people they saw, etc., we get bogged down in knot tying, drunken stupors, dream visions and calmiong of storms. Of course there is no evidence that they even existed so the "miracles" are nothing but plot devices put in by the author(s).

Assumptions. Assumptions. Assumptions. And nothing based on the text, which you only know of. You don't even know the conditions under which they undertook this "great adventure." They were used to a comfortable existence in Jerusalem. (Get their family treasures to buy the plates from Laban. No assumption.) They have to leave their home to save their father's life. It is clear from the text, they don't look at this an adventure, but as a trial. You also obviously don't know what it was like on the trade trails of the time. Bandits. Pretty scary stuff. This was not a weekend campout in a national park!

There is no mention of drunken stupors, either. But then, I forgot. You didn't read the text.

So, why do we get a great deal of minute detail about nothing but near absolute silence about the most important part, namely getting to the new world?

Another really weak assumption. The text makes it clear that the important part is God's dealings with them. So you tell me. If you were favored with a vision, or with a visit from an angel, what would you write in your journal? That you had oatmeal for breakfast, hiked 10 miles that day, and met 2 people from Germnay? Because you were having an "adventure?"

Also about your point that "it took days". Well 1000 days is still days. As you tried to say Thor "crossed the Pacific in 4 months" which turned out to be completely incorrect (and I've noted your silence on the subject) showed that it was a long journey at the very least.

So double that. Big deal. And you are ignoring the fact that sailing vessels can cross the Pacific and Atlantic in months, not years. Why?

So again, which way did Lehi go to make it to the new world?

Who know? Who cares?

[_the road to hana]

So you tell me. If you were favored with a vision, or with a visit from an angel, what would you write in your journal? That you had oatmeal for breakfast, hiked 10 miles that day, and met 2 people from Germnay? Because you were having an "adventure?"

I'd sure the heck keep the story straight.

[_charity]

So you tell me. If you were favored with a vision, or with a visit from an angel, what would you write in your journal? That you had oatmeal for breakfast, hiked 10 miles that day, and met 2 people from Germnay? Because you were having an "adventure?"

I'd sure the heck keep the story straight.

And how is the story of Lehi in the desert not "straight?"

[_LCD2YOU]

So you tell me. If you were favored with a vision, or with a visit from an angel, what would you write in your journal? That you had oatmeal for breakfast, hiked 10 miles that day, and met 2 people from Germnay? Because you were having an "adventure?"

I'd sure the heck keep the story straight.

And how is the story of Lehi in the desert not "straight?"

And the discussion is how they got from the Arabian Penninsula to the Americas.

An issue you are avoiding in your answers here.

[_charity]

And the discussion is how they got from the Arabian Penninsula to the Americas.

An issue you are avoiding in your answers here.

THEY CAME BY BOAT ACROSS THE OCEAN! Now, do you get it? In case you didn't notice, when a boat sails across a body of water, it doesn't leave a path of footprints you can track.

[_mledbetter]

And the discussion is how they got from the Arabian Penninsula to the Americas.

An issue you are avoiding in your answers here.

THEY CAME BY BOAT ACROSS THE OCEAN! Now, do you get it? In case you didn't notice, when a boat sails across a body of water, it doesn't leave a path of footprints you can track.

I don't know why you argue with people who will never be convinced and who are just combative a$$es. You and I have a higher witness of the Book of Mormon which we can't deny, lest we fall under condemnation. He doesn't believe we have that witness and you will never convince him otherwise. This is pointless.

[_karl61]

I think they split up in algeria - some went west and caught a tidel wave to florida and the others went to the east coast of africa and settled there. There is evidence of the east coast africa people but not the west coast tidel wave people.

[_LCD2YOU]

And the discussion is how they got from the Arabian Penninsula to the Americas.

An issue you are avoiding in your answers here.

THEY CAME BY BOAT ACROSS THE OCEAN! Now, do you get it? In case you didn't notice, when a boat sails across a body of water, it doesn't leave a path of footprints you can track.

Uh huh.

Check out a globe. Please note that from the SE tip of the Arabian Penninsula you have a few land masses in your way.

So, did they go south, around the Cape of Good Hope, a treacherous stretch of water. Then they go for a multi-month coastal juant up the coast of Africa, etc....

Or did they go the longer way, off of the coast of India, through Indonesia, past Australia and then 8 months (at best) across the Pacific to where?

The sites, the peoples, cultures, trials and tribulations would make much of the initial trek across the Penninsula seem tame.