Spiritual trauma: did you have any?

[_BishopRic]

The way to change feelings of self worth is not through sympathy....

All I can say is I am glad you are not my therapist, Charity....

[_charity]

The way to change feelings of self worth is not through sympathy....

All I can say is I am glad you are not my therapist, Charity....

If your therapist is giving you sympathy, he/she ought to lose his/her license for malpractice.

[_Doctor Steuss]

The way to change feelings of self worth is not through sympathy....

All I can say is I am glad you are not my therapist, Charity....

I tend to agree with that comment that the way to change feelings of self worth is not through sympathy (at least to an extent). A certain level of understanding is certainly needed, but often with sympathy comes pity; and such forms of sympathy will only perpetuate the feelings, in my opinion. If a “…-pathy” is needed; I tend to think that empathy would be more advantageous. Although I never found group therapy terribly effective, it did have a special ability in that there was an empathy that could not be found with the majority of counselors. And that empathy becomes even more powerful when it is coming from an individual who has overcome a similar feeling of inadequate self-worth.

Perhaps I’ve misunderstood though… *shrugs*

[Guest]

Bishops and stake presidents should be called upon to handle ecclesiatic matters. Areas of personal worthininess. Physical needs of the members which are beyond the member's abilities to provide for themselves. They are not trained, nor should they be expected to handle criminal matters. Abuse and domestic violence are criminal matters. We con't expect a bishop to handle the situation when a person goes to them with an intense pain in the lower right quardrant of the abdomen. We expect the person to be smart enough to go to a surgeon! Anyone who is a victim of a crime should be smart enough to know to go to the police.

I will say that most bishops know their limits, and generally do a very good job of steering the serious problems to the right source for treatment. BUT, I've known a few that played the "I'm called of God to have powers of discernment and inspiration..." card, and they overstepped their bounds in giving completely wrong advice, and serious consequences resulted from them playing "God."

(edited to add: Some of the most devastating results were when some gay friends of mine took their lives because they couldn't resolve the guilt instilled by their bishops that they should not have the "feelings of attraction to men" that they did, and that they were simply weak and sinful to have them. This type of advice has given Utah the highest suicide rate in the country among younger people (a high percentage are Mormon gay/lesbian suicides). It is due to the improper advice given by LDS leaders, rather than referring to properly scientifically trained, and yes, compassionate and sympathetic therapists that understand the biological foundation of homosexuality. The church has been forced to change their approach towards this, since again, science is proving previous teachings incorrect.)

I believe the training is much better today, and they are advised to be more cautious than in the past, but there are always those with an ego that "won't ask for directions!"

[_truth dancer]

Charity... have you ever actually worked as a therapist with survivors of abuse? Or with abusers?

You seem to know virtually nothing about abuse... NOTHING.

This is where you are wrong. They are never going to get out of the situation if all that is happening is somebody letting them cry on their shoulder and hearing, "you should feel good about yourself."

Why in the world do you think all a therapist does is "letting them cry on their shoulder saying, you should feel good about yourself"?

Where in the heck do you get something like this idea? I'm seriously interested. Where do you get this idea that this is what therapists do? This has nothing to do with any theory, or any known form of therapy of which I am aware dealing with abuse. Why would you suggest such a thing?

They need to demosntrate competence and that brings about the feeling of self-worth. If they don't have the strength to confront their abuser, they need to get out of the situation!

Spoken like someone who knows NOTHING about abuse.

:-(
~dancer~

[_Tori]

Your psychology is the Carl Rogers humanistic theory. It really sounds nice, all touchy feeling, unconditional love, etc. But the problem is, it is not very efficacious in terms of treatment. The way to change feelings of self worth is not through sympathy. It is through supporting the individual in making changes toward competence.

Tell that to the countless people that BR has already helped as a counseor.

You don't know, what you don't know, Charity.

[_harmony]

Charity teaches psychology. Perhaps there is a reason for this.

[_charity]

The way to change feelings of self worth is not through sympathy....

All I can say is I am glad you are not my therapist, Charity....

I tend to agree with that comment that the way to change feelings of self worth is not through sympathy (at least to an extent). A certain level of understanding is certainly needed, but often with sympathy comes pity; and such forms of sympathy will only perpetuate the feelings, in my opinion. If a “…-pathy” is needed; I tend to think that empathy would be more advantageous. Although I never found group therapy terribly effective, it did have a special ability in that there was an empathy that could not be found with the majority of counselors. And that empathy becomes even more powerful when it is coming from an individual who has overcome a similar feeling of inadequate self-worth.

Perhaps I’ve misunderstood though… *shrugs*

Empathy, which is a "knowing" of the person's emotional state is vital. That is not sympathy. You are right about sympathy moving quickly into pity. When Person A pities Person B, Person B is left feeling less competent, less of worth and value, and it is a destructive and not a constructive relationship.

And you are right about those occasional groups which can provide positive growth. Very often, though, groups which are not managed well become destructive. It is not necessary for a person to have been abused to be able to help a victim of abuse. But it certainlyh can help. But it is the behavioral change that is important. What did the survivor DO, what types of behavior can she model that is important.

[_charity]

Your psychology is the Carl Rogers humanistic theory. It really sounds nice, all touchy feeling, unconditional love, etc. But the problem is, it is not very efficacious in terms of treatment. The way to change feelings of self worth is not through sympathy. It is through supporting the individual in making changes toward competence.

Tell that to the countless people that BR has already helped as a counseor.

You don't know, what you don't know, Charity.

There are people who are going to be helped just put on a waiting list to see a counselor. If BishopRic is a trained psychologist, he knows that. It is the placebo effect. We are talking about long term outcomes. RET has much better long term outcomes than CCT.

[_moksha]

So which is better?

Psychologist A: Sit and listen to multiple repeats of depression, abusive events, self-loathing, guilt, low self-esteem. Result: Years of repeated victimization, but she knows why it is happening.

OR

Psychologist B: Tell the woman that the past is past and nothing will change it. Then guide her into how to make the future better by taking charge of her own life. Result: A woman gets her life on track and is no longer a victim.

Sounds like B wanted to cut the sessions short. Perhaps their client load was too full anyway, although getting your life back on track does seem like a laudable goal, it does not make payments on the BMW. So how does this apply to many ex-mormons? Would you toss them into the streets of wellness? What would that do to these many boards?
Would you give us religious posters similar short-shift? What about those of us who have come to depend upon these boards as an alternative lifestyle?