George P Lee

[_harmony]

George P. Lee was never an apostle. he was a 70.

Thanks for the correction, although it doesn't change any of the other comments on discernment. Or pride. Or True Isreal.

by the way, does the Book of Mormon support what Lee contends? Is the church supposed to be turned over to the Lamanites? Or is this another of those doctrinal things that gets lost when reality sets in?

[_moksha]

Obviously the Watchman Organization is one the feels their mission to God and Pocketbook are best served by making stuff up. If you persue their website as well as google Mr. Lee's latest troubles, you can see what I am referring to about the making stuff up.

[_Doctor Steuss]

by the way, does the Book of Mormon support what Lee contends? Is the church supposed to be turned over to the Lamanites? Or is this another of those doctrinal things that gets lost when reality sets in?

Not that I know of. There is the D&C thing regarding Bishops and decendents of Aaron, but I don't know of anything in the Book of Mormon that supports this. But then again...

"[T]here is never a loss for a prooftext to validate what desire can't resist." -- Judah Goldin ("The Magic of Magic and Superstition" in Aspects of Religious Propaganda in Judaism and Early Christianity).

[_harmony]

Obviously the Watchman Organization is one the feels their mission to God and Pocketbook are best served by making stuff up. If you persue their website as well as google Mr. Lee's latest troubles, you can see what I am referring to about the making stuff up.

We have our own problems with "making stuff up", so I tend to try to find out what is really true, and what is "made up." Thus, this thread.

[_moksha]

We have our own problems with "making stuff up", so I tend to try to find out what is really true, and what is "made up." Thus, this thread.

Are you referring to the apologists?

[_harmony]

We have our own problems with "making stuff up", so I tend to try to find out what is really true, and what is "made up." Thus, this thread.

Are you referring to the apologists?

Actually, I was referring to Joseph, but the same applies to some of our more illustrous apologists.

[_Gazelam]

Lee’s achievements culminated in his October 3, 1975 ordination, at the age of 32, as a member of the First Quorum of the Seventy, a General Authority, by President Spencer W. Kimball. President of the Arizona Holbrook Mission at the time of his call to the First Quorum of the Seventy, he continued as Mission President for some time as a General Authority. He woluld serve some fourteen years as a General Authority.

On September 1, 1989, however, it was announced that Lee had been excommunicated for “apostasy and other conduct unbecoming a member of the church.” His excommunication was the first of a General Authority to occur in 46 years. According to Lee, the action stemmed from his disagreement with the other church leaders over the role of American Indians in the religion and from other charges he had presented in a 23-page letter to President Ezra Taft Benson, and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles. It is the policy of the Church to respect an individual's right to privacy and not publicize the details of an excommicant's behavior which brought about the disciplinary action. However the Salt Lake Tribune reported that Lee had attempted to molest a minor girl. Lee originally denied the charges but on October 12, 1994, the Salt Lake Tribune reported that Lee acknowledged his guilt:

"A year ago, former Mormon general authority George P. Lee proclaimed he was 'innocent before God' of sexually molesting a 12-year-old neighbor girl.

"But Tuesday before a 3rd District judge, Lee humbly hung his head and admitted to touching the girl's breasts for sexual gratification....

"Lee, 51, pleaded guilty to attempted sexual abuse of a child, a third-degree felony...."

At this writing, Lee remains outside the Church.

Link: http://personal.atl.bellsouth.net/without/wol3/leegp1.htm

[_Ray A]

This website is just a summary of the letter. Does anyone know where the entire letter can be viewed?

I did a brief Internet search but came up with nothing. I have (had?) an original photocopy of Lee's handwritten letter which was photomechanically made by the Tanners, but I'm not sure if I threw it out. I could do some searching and if I still have it I could scan and upload it, but I'm not sure of the legality of this. It may be copyrighted.

Lee's problems with the leaders started around 1985, when he began emphasising the role of the Lamanites. Some of the GAs felt he was becoming "filled with pride". If you read Lee's early Conference addresses it's not hard to understand why (I read and re-read all of them, and they are somewhat egocentric). He was initially banned from speaking in General Conferences, and this exacerbated his eventual apostasy. He was also curtailed in assignments, and he plead with the Brethren for a number of years for his speaking and assignment responsibilities to be reinstated, to no avail. Eventually he decided he was an "outcast" among the GAs. This feeling of alienation could have led him to engage in sexual abuse.
I believe the Brethren may have been aware of this from private complaints made, but at the time there was no hard evidence against him. This may have been a factor in his excommunication for apostasy, which was the official reason given. I think they wanted to get Lee off their hands asap.

[_Trinity]

Lee is navajo, born not far from Shiprock NM. Prior to his fall from grace, his image was legendary down in those parts. My mother would always tell me the story about how Lee's mother walked about 20 miles into town when she was in labor with Lee, to get to the hospital. President Kimball, who had a real affinity for the navajo people, was the one that initiated the indian placement program down there on the navajo reservation. I can well imagine Lee's disgruntlement having to deal with Benson after being treated like royalty during Kimball's reign.

[_The Nehor]

George P. Lee was never an apostle. he was a 70.

Thanks for the correction, although it doesn't change any of the other comments on discernment. Or pride. Or True Isreal.

by the way, does the Book of Mormon support what Lee contends? Is the church supposed to be turned over to the Lamanites? Or is this another of those doctrinal things that gets lost when reality sets in?

The Book of Mormon does say that the remnants of the land (presumably Native Americans) will overrun the Gentiles unless they repent.

Orson Pratt taught that the Church and the Lamanites would aid each other in building the New Jesusalem. Nothing I have read in the Standard Works leads me to believe that the Church will 'turn over' control to Native Americans. When these prophecies begin to be fulfilled I suspect that there will be a greater number of leaders drawn from among them. I personally suspect that in the next 50 years the Quorum of the 12 will be 25-50% non-American as well. The general trend in leadership is that most of them are at least 2nd and more often at least 3rd to 4th generation members. I find it telling that the most trouble we've had with Apostles was when they were largely 1st and 2nd generation. Also, until the end of WWII the Saints were under a general mandate to come to Utah if possible. This to me explains why most of the General Authorities are American (though a majority also have the blood of LDS immigrants in them as well, mostly British).

Unless you accept the prophecies of Orson Pratt as authoritative there is little to go on regarding LDS/Native American relations. The above is just my rambling speculation. I haven't studied this much since my Mission. Maybe on my next readthrough of the Book of Mormon I should make it one of my focuses.