Spiritual trauma: did you have any?

[_beastie]

Charity,

You clearly have only a superficial understanding of the cycle of abuse. You do not understand how the predator carefully dismantles any former sense of confidence, trust in oneself, and assertiveness that the victim may have formerly possessed. You also do not understand that adult victims of abuse, like children, engage in mental "tricks" to deal with their reality, and that includes magical thinking and avoidance. If you knew anything about abuse, you would understand this. You would understand that the victim loses confidence in her ability to accurately judge reality, or even perceive reality. It's a form of gaslighting. You would understand that learning to accept that you have absolutely no power to stop the abuse is so extraordinarily frightening that victims of abuse - children AND adults - instead construct mental rationalizations that entail believing that they somehow "caused" the abuse, and, if only they could find the "right" way to be, could stop it.

Victims of abuse come from all walks of life, from all levels of education, from all levels of independence and assertiveness. The only thing we all had in common was that we had the misfortune of crossing the paths of a predator who then targeted us. The fact that you think victims of abuse are "doormats" and victims of their own poor choices reveals the deep level of your ignorance.

I was clear about the role the church played in this. The culture of the church encouraged me to marry someone I barely knew, because I knew all I needed to know when "God" answered my prayer about marrying him. The culture of the church then encouraged me to abhor the idea of divorce and to not view it as a reasonable, spiritually responsible, alternative. The culture of the church encouraged my exhusband to engage in abuse without fear of losing me, because he knew I would never divorce him as long as I believed in the church, as long as he didn't cross certain lines. (I would have divorced him had he molested the children or actually beat us - so he refrained from physical attacks, although he acted violently around us by throwing things and pushing, his weapon of choice was words)

Thank god you only teach community college courses. You can't do much harm there. But please stop pretending that your degree in psychology has given you a real understanding of abuse, because it hasn't, and that is painfully apparent to anyone who has endured abuse or has seriously studied it.

[_Jersey Girl]

beastie,

In all fairness to charity, it was I who first used the term "doormat". If you'd like to take that up with me, I'm game.

[_Coggins7]

Because they are "in love." Because he has prestige and they want to ride on his glory train. Becaue he has a good income. Because they look only at the superficial, unimportant features of a person's personality. Because they don't want to admit they made a mistake. Because they made a vow of "for better or worse." All these are CHOICES.

Beastie, Hillary has stayed with Bill. What does that suggest to your mind?

[_Coggins7]

In all fairness to charity, it was I who first used the term "doormat". If you'd like to take that up with me, I'm game.

I first heard that term probably 25 years ago from a LDS Psychologist who worked with female abuse victims. I've also seen it first hand. It justifies nothing, but its a very real human dynamic.

[Gadianton]

Hi Wade,

Welcome! The point of my OP was that there appears to be an event, or series of events, that triggers many of us to study, dig deeper, or whatever course they take to (eventually) decide to leave the faith they have been following up to that point. I called it "spiritual trauma" just because I think that best describes what one goes through...and in fact, usually has an event that sparks the change in momentum. After participating in and facilitating quite a few ex-Mormon support groups, it's certainly more the norm than the exception.

I'm sure those that have been exposed to more inconsistencies between what has been taught and actually practiced might be more immune to the trauma. The idea of "inoculation" makes sense to me, and I think it would help retain those members who have not heard about or been exposed to some of the challenges. My experience is that most members don't have any real interest in studying or discussing the potential conflicts in church history unless they have had "an event" that is taking them out of their comfort zone. Some certainly become "stronger" after the research, and some leave.

My OP point is that after the "trauma," I think most are better off for having the challenge -- whichever place they land. I certainly did, and am quite grateful for the experience, as are most that I know.

by the way, after the holiday, let's try to finally get together? Happy New Year to you!

Hey Rick,

If you feel that the word "trauma" is well suited in your's and others LDS experience, then I am more than willing accept that (and pretty much thought that I already had). I'm just not sure that the lack of trauma for many of us may necessarily be a function of "incoculation" rather than simply looking at things in a different way--perhaps not seeing certain things as "inconsistency" or not applying certain faith-demoting meanings to them. Who knows.

Whatever the case, I look forward to getting together after the holidays. Maybe if you get a chance you can take a look at my left eye to see if you can tell why it causes me to see as if looking through wax paper. I would be please to set up an appointment to be examined at your office, but I wanted to get a preliminary opinion to see if the exam is even worth it.

Happy New Years to you as well!! Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_Yoda]

Because they are "in love." Because he has prestige and they want to ride on his glory train. Becaue he has a good income. Because they look only at the superficial, unimportant features of a person's personality. Because they don't want to admit they made a mistake. Because they made a vow of "for better or worse." All these are CHOICES.

Beastie, Hillary has stayed with Bill. What does that suggest to your mind?

WTF? Are you seriously comparing Beastie's situation with Hillary's?

[_Trevor]

Beastie, Hillary has stayed with Bill. What does that suggest to your mind?

She understands the concept of opportunity cost?

[_beastie]

In all fairness to charity, it was I who first used the term "doormat". If you'd like to take that up with me, I'm game.

Victims of abuse DO become doormats to the abuser, in effect. But they MADE us that way. Charity can't fathom how an assertive individual could end up trapped in an abusive relationship. Apparently she thinks that people end up trapped in abusive relationships only because they made bad choices, were already doormats, or (fill in the blank with some sort of personality flaw). What she doesn't understand is that - lacking the understanding of how the cycle of abuse works - ANYONE can end up trapped in an abusive relationship, given the right combination of factors.

I see this attitude a lot in larger society. God help a woman if she couldn't figure it all out right away, after the first event, and stuck around to work it out. In the eyes of the ignorant, that becomes her condemnation.

[_Jersey Girl]

In all fairness to charity, it was I who first used the term "doormat". If you'd like to take that up with me, I'm game.

Victims of abuse DO become doormats to the abuser, in effect. But they MADE us that way. Charity can't fathom how an assertive individual could end up trapped in an abusive relationship. Apparently she thinks that people end up trapped in abusive relationships only because they made bad choices, were already doormats, or (fill in the blank with some sort of personality flaw). What she doesn't understand is that - lacking the understanding of how the cycle of abuse works - ANYONE can end up trapped in an abusive relationship, given the right combination of factors.

I see this attitude a lot in larger society. God help a woman if she couldn't figure it all out right away, after the first event, and stuck around to work it out. In the eyes of the ignorant, that becomes her condemnation.

And that's exactly what I was alluding to, beastie. There is no possible way that charity understands the continuum of the abuse cycle. No blessed way. As you demonstrated, as a 19 year old you didn't even know what the bi-polar was about. My take is that you were faithful, prayerful and hopeful as directed by scripture and the religious culture you were immersed in.

[_Jersey Girl]

In all fairness to charity, it was I who first used the term "doormat". If you'd like to take that up with me, I'm game.

Victims of abuse DO become doormats to the abuser, in effect. But they MADE us that way. Charity can't fathom how an assertive individual could end up trapped in an abusive relationship. Apparently she thinks that people end up trapped in abusive relationships only because they made bad choices, were already doormats, or (fill in the blank with some sort of personality flaw). What she doesn't understand is that - lacking the understanding of how the cycle of abuse works - ANYONE can end up trapped in an abusive relationship, given the right combination of factors.

I see this attitude a lot in larger society. God help a woman if she couldn't figure it all out right away, after the first event, and stuck around to work it out. In the eyes of the ignorant, that becomes her condemnation.

And that's exactly what I was alluding to, beastie. There is no possible way that charity understands the continuum of the abuse cycle. No blessed way. As you demonstrated, as a 19 year old you didn't even know what the bi-polar was about. My take is that you were faithful, prayerful and hopeful as directed by scripture and the religious culture you were immersed in.