Life Meaning -- Atheists? Theists?

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_guy sajer
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Post by _guy sajer »

Gadianton wrote:
a) When most Christians say life wouldn't have any meaning without their maniac God, they really mean life wouldn't have any meaning without the things they are comfortable in life with like their dog, or kids, religion or whatever. I think it's valid to feel this way, in fact I question whether there is any other way to frame personal fulfillment, but that doesn't imply anything special about the xtian position.



I'm actually more inclined to say that when Christians say life wouldn't have any meaning without God, what they really mean is that without hope in a hereafter (which belief in God gives them), then this life has no meaning. This is why they have such a hard time accepting that atheists can have any meaning in life, as atheists don't believe in a hereafter.

Ultimately, believers do look to God to give their lives meaning, as the meaning their lives take on relate directly to the rules, moral codes God has established and the implications of these for the believer's propsects in the hereafter.
God . . . "who mouths morals to other people and has none himself; who frowns upon crimes, yet commits them all; who created man without invitation, . . . and finally, with altogether divine obtuseness, invites this poor, abused slave to worship him ..."
_GoodK

Post by _GoodK »

[quote="Moniker"]BUT HOW? Why aren't any theists jumping in here?[quote]

I'm beginning to think that there aren't any here... which is kind of depressing. It's like when Christopher Hitchens said he never wanted religion to completely dissapear because then he wouldn't have anyone to argue with...
_Moniker
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Post by _Moniker »

guy sajer wrote:
Gadianton wrote:
a) When most Christians say life wouldn't have any meaning without their maniac God, they really mean life wouldn't have any meaning without the things they are comfortable in life with like their dog, or kids, religion or whatever. I think it's valid to feel this way, in fact I question whether there is any other way to frame personal fulfillment, but that doesn't imply anything special about the xtian position.



I'm actually more inclined to say that when Christians say life wouldn't have any meaning without God, what they really mean is that without hope in a hereafter (which belief in God gives them), then this life has no meaning. This is why they have such a hard time accepting that atheists can have any meaning in life, as atheists don't believe in a hereafter.

Ultimately, believers do look to God to give their lives meaning, as the meaning their lives take on relate directly to the rules, moral codes God has established and the implications of these for the believer's propsects in the hereafter.


That's what I've gotten from the discussions as well.

That they have certain principles they must live in the now that directly relates to the hereafter -- and all they do now is only given meaning because it is working for the reward or punishment.
_Moniker
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Post by _Moniker »

GoodK wrote:I'm beginning to think that there aren't any here... which is kind of depressing. It's like when Christopher Hitchens said he never wanted religion to completely dissapear because then he wouldn't have anyone to argue with...


Well there are theists here. There's Nehor (bah! No help there), asbestosman, Liz, Charity, Wenglund, Pirate (she's LDS -- but I'm not sure what her beliefs are in a deity to be honest), Gazelem, bcspace, Coggins, RayA, Moksha, and I'm sure there are others that I'm just forgetting right now.
_Jersey Girl
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Post by _Jersey Girl »

Moniker
Nehor says that atheists have no rational basis for meaning to their life.


Nehor is out to lunch. So long as humans bond there will be meaning to their life.
_The Nehor
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Post by _The Nehor »

Jersey Girl wrote:Moniker
Nehor says that atheists have no rational basis for meaning to their life.


Nehor is out to lunch. So long as humans bond there will be meaning to their life.


How many times do I have to say I didn't say that????????

I need to go check Scratch's blog to see if it's there.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics
"I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
_huckelberry
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Post by _huckelberry »

No theists here?

I am a theist. I am here occasionally. The difficulty I see with the question is I cannot think of any reason to think that atheists and theists should have different meanings in our life. After all we all find all that we are from the same source.
_JAK
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Goals of Theist & Atheist

Post by _JAK »

Who Knows wrote:Atheists and theists are all shooting for the same thing - happiness. Theists are just hoping to have it in the next life, while atheists want to have it now.


Theists want it both now and later.

A distinction can be made between soft atheists andhard atheists.

While neither subscribe to or commit to some theism, the hard atheist has a more difficult position in that he/she may attempt to argue a negative: (There is no God.)

The soft atheist does not try to turn the negative assertion above into a hard claim. Hence, (There is no established evidence for God claims.)

Neither the theist nor the atheist is generally in a hurry to end a life he has known. Some very old or very sick people (atheist or theist), have expressed: I just want it to be over meaning suffering and pain and the certainty that it will be over sooner rather than later.

Perhaps the atheist has a greater appreciation for life now. At least some theists are quite disagreeable and mean-spirited, but the retain the belief that they will get to heaven and the invent that any why the wish – usually where (if they really got it) it would be boring with no goals, no projects, nothing to do or achieve – just eternal bliss like the first day of a vacation from ill-health or unrewarding work.

They don’t give much thought to just what it would be like to have NOTHING to look forward to as they would now have EVERYTHING of preconceived value.

I should think that if people who want heaven would find it to be hell if they got it. Rod Sterling's The Twilight Zone.

One of his gems featured a person who died and went….

At first the person was delighted to find himself in heaven. It was just as he had thought it would be. Total comfort, everything to eat he wanted, all lovely.

After a while, he asked to be made to feel hungry so that he could appreciate good food. But he was advised that being hungry is not good. Only good things are here. Then he asked to feel cold and chilled to the bone so that he might appreciate the feeling of warmth and comfort. But he was advised that being cold is not good, and that too was denied. Even though he refused to eat, he could not feel hunger. It was all the same. He tried to make himself cold. But there was no place, no thermostat to adjust to make it cold. Nor could he make it hot.

As the 30 minute show continued, he noticed that all the faces of people were like a mask always smiling and happy. Happy is good.

And so with a variety of scenes, Rod Serling lets the audience discover slowly that the man is really in hell. There is NOTHING to do, no challenges to meet, only the same, same, same perfect world.

Serling caught a considerable amount of flack for the show. Most of his Twilight Zone shows carried with them some subtle, subversive element which caused people TO THINK rather than merely be entertained as in I Love Lucy which aired in same historical period.

JAK
_JAK
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Human Bonding Makes for Meaning

Post by _JAK »

Jersey Girl wrote:Moniker
Nehor says that atheists have no rational basis for meaning to their life.


Nehor is out to lunch. So long as humans bond there will be meaning to their life.


Exactly so.

“Meaning in one’s life is not dependent on the mythology of religions or of any religion in particular.

See my post Goals of Theist & Atheist

JAK
_JAK
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No Justification for Some Theism

Post by _JAK »

huckelberry wrote:No theists here?

I am a theist. I am here occasionally. The difficulty I see with the question is I cannot think of any reason to think that atheists and theists should have different meanings in our life. After all we all find all that we are from the same source.


Right

But that does not result in any rational conclusion for theism.

JAK
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