Is this possible? How?

[_Blixa]

What crappy members. They are obviously too lazy to do any research. This was all discussed years ago. Do they expect this trivia to be covered in church instead of important gospel doctrines? Actually Tarski, you're probably making the whole thing up. And oh, yeah, you're an anonymous coward...

(Who Knows is only 34? Yikes)

[_Tarski]

I'm surprised they even talked to you about any of these issues.

Well, it is true that they repeatedly tried to end the topic but only after making some denials and bold assertions.
It wasn't a real discussion.

[_harmony]

I'm surprised they even talked to you about any of these issues.

Well, it is true that they repeatedly tried to end the topic but only after making some denials and bold assertions.
It wasn't a real discussion.

Wow, the holidays were fun at that house. I hope in addition to these "discussions" that you also played games, horsed around, told stories, built snowmen, went sledding, made cookies and hot cocoa, watched a football game or two, and generally ate too much.

[_John Larsen]

My family believes all of those things and they are intelligent, thoughtful, educated professionals.

John

[_Imwashingmypirate]

No wait! when I said surely they would know the last one is true, I meant they should know that Joseph Smith used a hat. Not that it was anti Mormon talk.

[_Tarski]

I'm surprised they even talked to you about any of these issues.

Well, it is true that they repeatedly tried to end the topic but only after making some denials and bold assertions.
It wasn't a real discussion.

Wow, the holidays were fun at that house. I hope in addition to these "discussions" that you also played games, horsed around, told stories, built snowmen, went sledding, made cookies and hot cocoa, watched a football game or two, and generally ate too much.

All of that happened except the sledding and snowmen. They are in southern Utah and there was not enough snow that week.
My family is great. They are just willfully and strategically uniformed on certain sensitive topics.
But it is in part a "group will" and a groups strategy". The church doesn't foster awareness of these issue anymore than fundies and EVs foster scientific awareness.

[_wenglund]

I recently visited my family in Utah during the holidays.
My sisters and parents were there. I was there for a week. My brother in laws was there too. He is an attorney and a life long active member. My parents have been super active in the church for 60 or 70 years. They read tons of church books by GA's etc. They went on 2 senior missions and while my father was a bishop and high councilman, my mother was RF president. They attended church sponsored "know your religion programs" in the 70's. My sisters are also super active and constantly read scriptures, attend meetings, and read church books.

Would you believe the following to be true? Guess which are true.

1. None of them could name more than one of Joseph Smith's wives (Emma) and some were unwilling to admit that he even had more than one wife. The others said his other wives were few and only "on paper". The idea that Emma and members were at one point unaware was called an antimormon lie.

2. None had ever heard of any issues connecting the Book of Abraham to funeral scrolls. All accepted a simple translation theory.

3. All of them were steeped in anti-evolution creationist propaganda of the most inane type and were skeptical that a member in good standing could accept evolutionary theory. They all thought that there was literally no death before Adam and Eve.

4. All believed in a world-wide flood that covered even tall mountains. My discussion of geology only revealed anti-scientific emotional backlash and denial.

5. All believed in the hemispheric model of the Book of Mormon and had never heard of the LGT ("so then where was the narrow neck of land?" they demanded"). They all thought it (the LGT) was clearly incompatible with the text itself. They also said that it was “well known” that there was tons of evidence for the Book of Mormon in archeology (ancient America speaks!!)

6. Almost none had heard about any Book of Mormon/DNA issues and said it was doctrine that American Indians were simply the descendents of Book of Mormon Lamanites and denied any Bering Straight /Asian connection (calling it a mere theory).

7. None were aware of any issues concerning metallurgy, elephants or horses in the Book of Mormon.

8. None believed the "head in the hat" translation processes. They said it was an antimormon lie.

I would venture to guess that they are also unfamiliar with Judah's inadvertant sexual relations with his daughter-in=law (who he mistook for a prostitute), or Joseph coming to fist-to-cuff with his brother William during a study group in Nauvoo, or Brigham Young's sentiments about dogs in his bedroom, or a host of other historical issues that are irrelevant to belief in the restored gospel of Christ (at least in the minds of many of us believers).

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[_Runtu]

I would venture to guess that they are also unfamiliar with Judah's inadvertant sexual relations with his daughter-in=law (who he mistook for a prostitute), or Joseph coming to fist-to-cuff with his brother William during a study group in Nauvoo, or Brigham Young's sentiments about dogs in his bedroom, or a host of other historical issues that are irrelevant to belief in the restored gospel of Christ (at least in the minds of many of us believers).

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

For many of us, these are relevant issues, Wade. I'm sure I'm misinterpreting you (I seem to have a knack for never getting you right), but saying that you don't care about such things does not minimize their importance for those of us who do.

[_Tarski]

I would venture to guess that they are also unfamiliar with Judah's inadvertant sexual relations with his daughter-in=law (who he mistook for a prostitute), or Joseph coming to fist-to-cuff with his brother William during a study group in Nauvoo, or Brigham Young's sentiments about dogs in his bedroom, or a host of other historical issues that are irrelevant to belief in the restored gospel of Christ (at least in the minds of many of us believers).

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Except that, unlike you, they all saw quite clearly how these things would (if true) be quite relevant to belief in "the restored gospel". That's why they so emotionally reacted. I doubt that dogs in BYs bedroom would get such a defensive reaction.

[_The Nehor]

I would venture to guess that they are also unfamiliar with Judah's inadvertant sexual relations with his daughter-in=law (who he mistook for a prostitute), or Joseph coming to fist-to-cuff with his brother William during a study group in Nauvoo, or Brigham Young's sentiments about dogs in his bedroom, or a host of other historical issues that are irrelevant to belief in the restored gospel of Christ (at least in the minds of many of us believers).

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Except that, unlike you, they all saw quite clearly how these things would (if true) be quite relevant to belief in "the restored gospel". that's why they so emotionally reacted. I doubt dogs in BYs bedroom would get such a defensive reaction.

Relevant to some, I don't care.