What recourse do you have?

[_charity]

And repent of your pride in thinking that they are less inspired than you are and you would know how to do it better.

But, they are fallible men, correct?

It IS possible that they might not use it correctly, right?

I don't know how the process works, but I am sure it is more than one person making the decision on if a proposed expenditure should be taken out of tithing funds. I think while one man may make fallible decisions now and then there must be some checks and balances in the system. That should keep the errors down.

Plus that fact that any one person who thinks he could do it better has to recognize his own fallibility and be humbled by that knowledge. What if he is wrong?

[_Gadianton]

If you don't agree with it, then you're not worthy of the priesthood. The Lord approves of the way the tithing is spent. If he didn't, he'd strike the prophet dead on the spot.

[_Scottie]

And repent of your pride in thinking that they are less inspired than you are and you would know how to do it better.

But, they are fallible men, correct?

It IS possible that they might not use it correctly, right?

I don't know how the process works, but I am sure it is more than one person making the decision on if a proposed expenditure should be taken out of tithing funds. I think while one man may make fallible decisions now and then there must be some checks and balances in the system. That should keep the errors down.

Plus that fact that any one person who thinks he could do it better has to recognize his own fallibility and be humbled by that knowledge. What if he is wrong?

That's exactly what I'm saying. This person HAS been humbled and realized that giving it to the church is the wrong thing to do, in that they spend it inappropriately and have no accountability for anything. How much more godly insight and humility does someone need?

[_Scottie]

If you don't agree with it, then you're not worthy of the priesthood. The Lord approves of the way the tithing is spent. If he didn't, he'd strike the prophet dead on the spot.

No, no, no...God doesn't work this way.

God lets His prophets make HUGE mistakes without any consequences.

So, it's quite possible that the brethern are spending money on lavish temples that God is disgusted with, but God will let them make these mistakes.

Why God doesn't let us make our own mistakes with our money is beyond me. Well, I guess He does, in that He commands that we give it to these imperfect men.

[_charity]

That's exactly what I'm saying. This person HAS been humbled and realized that giving it to the church is the wrong thing to do, in that they spend it inappropriately and have no accountability for anything. How much more godly insight and humility does someone need?

Did you mean that tongue in cheek?

"they spend it iannpropriately" by whose definition? "His" very humbled opinioin? He doesn't know what is spent where. He sees one temple and makes a global decision? I think his decision is made on very little information and a very high opinion of his own smarts.

"no accountability?" Accountability to him? And who died and made him God? That is exactly who they are accountable to, God. Not this one high and mighty person.

I see no godly insight or humility in this person's attitude.

But of course, you must have meant this tongue in cheek. Surely you did.

[_truth dancer]

Hi Scottie...

First, one can send a check directly to SLC and bypass the bishop. One does not need to disclose to the bishop how much money was spent so you could earmark the money for something like the PEF, or to fast offerings. The TR tithing question is a yes or no question and you can honestly answer yes without further disclosure.

In other words, so long as you are paying ten percent to the church, it counts and you can answer yes in the TRI. If I recall correctly there is no specific rule about the ten percent being required to actually go to a certain fund.

Now... here is the bigger question.

If after much prayer and fasting, your personal inspiration and message from the HG confirms your belief that tithing money is spent inappropriately what do you do?

Members at times suggest that you do not really have to follow the prophet because everyone is entitled to their own inspiration, but would it be better to follow the prophet going against YOUR personal inspiration? Or would your personal confirmation from the HG be the higher truth?

~dancer~

[_truth dancer]

Plus that fact that any one person who thinks he could do it better has to recognize his own fallibility and be humbled by that knowledge. What if he is wrong?

Are you suggesting that one's personal inspiration is fallible?

Do you think the leaders of the church are fallible?

Is it possible that they are making a mistake?

~dancer~

[_Some Schmo]

Do I write a letter? If so, to whom?
Do I explain to my bishop that I will still donate 10% of my earnings, but to a charity of my choosing, thereby fulfilling the spirit of the commandment? Or, even 2% to the church and 8% to a charity of my choosing. After all, the church does need money to operate.
Would it help if I explained that I had prayed diligently about it and had received personal revelation that paying 10% to another organization is ok in God's eyes? Could I explain that to my bishop and SP? Would they ok my TR if I tried that?

Dude, I think you're confusing the church with some other organization that gives a damn what their members think.

[_Scottie]

That's exactly what I'm saying. This person HAS been humbled and realized that giving it to the church is the wrong thing to do, in that they spend it inappropriately and have no accountability for anything. How much more godly insight and humility does someone need?

Did you mean that tongue in cheek?

"they spend it iannpropriately" by whose definition?

By "his" own definition. This is what the thread is about. This good, upstanding member is not happy with the way the money is being spent.

"His" very humbled opinioin? He doesn't know what is spent where.

This is part of why he is unhappy with the way the church handles it's finances. He has no idea where it goes, so he can only guess.

He sees one temple and makes a global decision?

What else should he use to determine how the money is being spent? We can only make informed decisions if we have information. He has no information, other than what he sees. And what he sees is disbturbing.

I think his decision is made on very little information and a very high opinion of his own smarts.

Which is part of the problem. If the church would publish how the money is spent, he would be much more likey to continue paying tithing. But, from his viewpoint, it is being spent irresponsibly.

Answer this question. Should a member pay tithing simply because the chuch says you should pay tithing? Is there no room to study it out in your mind? Can a person get personal revelation that contradicts what the church requires? Is this a case of the thinking has been done?

"no accountability?" Accountability to him? And who died and made him God? That is exactly who they are accountable to, God. Not this one high and mighty person.

I see no godly insight or humility in this person's attitude.

But of course, you must have meant this tongue in cheek. Surely you did.[/quote]

[_guy sajer]

You see, your question is the one posed by the sophisticated pseudo insider meant to criticize. By your question you infer that there is something wrong with the way the Church spends its funds, or that you think you know better.

I look at it this way. If you want a drivers' license you have to pay the fee and take the test. It is possible in some states to get a fee waiver due to poverty, but you have to jump through the hoops to do it. You can't earmark the fee to the Department of Forestry, nor can you withhold your fee because somebody hasn't fixed the pothole.

The Church is on an even higher plane than a government agency. It is a completely voluntary, First Amendment, organization. It has the protections of freedom of worship and association. Its scriptures say that when you donate your "inheritance" it is without strings. So, if you want to condition your tithing, or earmark it or make exceptions, you fall outside of the rules the Church has set. Either you believe or your don't.

Having said that, I have had friends who have been angry with the financial aspects of the Church. I've had a good friend, close to a best friend, take it to his bishop; being dissatisfied, he took it to his stake president. Still unhappy, he requested permission to speak to a general authority and, as is generally a member's right, he was granted the request and pitched his complaint to a general authority whereupon he left somewhat satisfied with his explanation. It didn't help that he was secretly committing adultery, however.

rcrocket

I think he was pretty clear what his perspective was, we didn't need you to interpret (incorrectly, I made add) for us.

Yes, I think there is something wrong with the way the Mormon Church spends its funds. Too much spent for the benefit of the un-needy dead; too little spent for the benefit of the needy living.

Yes, I do believe I know better how the Mormon Church should allocate (broadly) its funds.

Yes, I do believe that accepting voluntary donations and (arrogantly) refusing to account for it is unethical.

Yes, I do have a say (to preempt what I know is coming); I still pay tithing. Or better said, my wife pays tithing, and since our money goes into a common pot, I too am paying thousands of dollars a year to the Mormon Corporation.

No, I am not secretly committing adultery.