Ah this is no big deal given the Church's fairly open position about birth control these days. And a lot of members just get the V or tied tubes anyway. Many members don't even know about this policy as they do not have the CHI.
That is one of the keys to understanding and it illustrates why nonmembers and exmos cannot possibly expect to be correct on this issue by themselves. It's because they have no experience with the context of living the gospel in the Church and/or have forgotten. There is an Ensign from the '70's that shows what the Church's concern about vasectomies (and tubals by extension) is. But have these people bothered to search it out? No.
If a bishop wanted to he could use this as leverage to get at a family member or a forward thinking couple.
bishop: "the church mandates that blahblahblah your loyalty is questioned".
And crawling on the planet's face Some insects called the human race Lost in time And lost in space...and meaning
If a bishop wanted to he could use this as leverage to get at a family member or a forward thinking couple.
bishop: "the church mandates that blahblahblah your loyalty is questioned".
Then the bishop would cease to be a bishop.
What mechanism is in place to ensure that this happens? Would the member have to report the bishop to the stake high council? The "everything is always sunny in mormondom" attitude is worn out.
And crawling on the planet's face Some insects called the human race Lost in time And lost in space...and meaning
A vasectomy is one thing... surrogate motherhood is an entirely different animal. In order to become a surrogate mother, a woman has to be inseminated (via normal or artificial means) with a man's sperm, a man she is not married to. How can this be "discouraged" rather than a case for church sanction, if not excommunication?
bcspace wrote:Teacher: Boot to the head! (SH-ZOOMP!)
Although we disagree on the underlying issue, we both recognize good funny. I love "Boot to the Head." Dr. Demento - good times (now where is my Demento CD compilation?).
I may be going to hell in a bucket, babe / But at least I'm enjoying the ride.
-Grateful Dead (lyrics by John Perry Barlow)
A vasectomy is one thing... surrogate motherhood is an entirely different animal. In order to become a surrogate mother, a woman has to be inseminated (via normal or artificial means) with a man's sperm, a man she is not married to. How can this be "discouraged" rather than a case for church sanction, if not excommunication?
Because virtue and carnal knowledge are not involved? What about the Old Testament law of raising up seed unto your deceased brother by taking his wife under your care? That well illustrates to me how God might think of the problem.
Teacher: Boot to the head! (SH-ZOOMP!)
Although we disagree on the underlying issue, we both recognize good funny. I love "Boot to the Head." Dr. Demento - good times (now where is my Demento CD compilation?).
bcspace wrote:That is one of the keys to understanding and it illustrates why nonmembers and exmos cannot possibly expect to be correct on this issue by themselves. It's because they have no experience with the context of living the gospel in the Church and/or have forgotten. There is an Ensign from the '70's that shows what the Church's concern about vasectomies (and tubals by extension) is. But have these people bothered to search it out? No.
You mean this from SWK:
We marry for eternity. We are serious about this. We become parents and bring wanted children into the world and rear and train them to righteousness.
We are aghast at the reports of young people going to surgery to limit their families and the reputed number of parents who encourage this vasectomy. Remember that the coming of the Lord approaches, and some difficult-to-answer questions will be asked by a divine Judge who will be hard to satisfy with silly explanations and rationalizations. He will judge justly, you may be sure.
This still doesn't persuade me that a couple needs to go to the bishop for a consultation on a vasectomy. Is it because the Lord will be angry if you get snipped?
Although I did enjoy reading SWK's references to streaking and wife-swapping. Gotta love the 70s.
I may be going to hell in a bucket, babe / But at least I'm enjoying the ride.
-Grateful Dead (lyrics by John Perry Barlow)
This still doesn't persuade me that a couple needs to go to the bishop for a consultation on a vasectomy. Is it because the Lord will be angry if you get snipped?
I don't believe either is true unless in the latter case, you are selfishly limiting family size which is what LDS doctrine on this matter is all about. What I'm getting at is you don't have to see the Bishop at all if you are considering getting snipped.
Zero Population is the answer my friend. Without it, the rest of us are doomed!
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics "I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
bcspace wrote:Considering the Church's stance on birth control......
Birth Control
It is the privilege of married couples who are able to bear children to provide mortal bodies for the spirit children of God, whom they are then responsible to nurture and rear. The decision as to how many children to have and when to have them is extremely intimate and private and should be left between the couple and the Lord. Church members should not judge one another in this matter.
Married couples also should understand that sexual relations within marriage are divinely approved not only for the purpose of procreation, but also as a means of expressing love and strengthening emotional and spiritual bonds between husband and wife.
.....I'd say Merc is trying to manufacture some shock value (either that or more lazy research on his part) by implying the statement means something it does not.
My body is my own and my wifes body is my wifes. The church should not have an opinion on vasectomies or TL's
Can God have an opinion on it?
Butt outta this thread bud.
You have zero applicable experience in this area.
You need to FIRST follow their strong counsel of "stop hanging around and GET MARRIED".