Dr. Shades wrote:Does anything positive even need to be offered?
It seems to me that finding out that your religion is actually false is its own reward.
Thanks for the honest response.
No. Nor need there be.
I suppose from my point of view it is more situational than general.
The opportunity for the teach-ee to finally choose for him/herself is its own reward.
It is rewarding to make a good decision.
[/quote]
One moment in annihilation's waste, one moment, of the well of life to taste- The stars are setting and the caravan starts for the dawn of nothing; Oh, make haste! -Omar Khayaam
KimberlyAnn wrote:As a former Mormon, I feel a sense of obligation to share information with folks considering joining Mormonism....
I've not visited with every family I've known to be taking discussions, but I have left packets of information for them and my email address and phone number if they had any further questions.....
KA
That is a great service you are doing.
What does your "packet" consist of? What basic things do you tell them? I really like Richard Packham's page he wrote at http://www.exmormon.org/tract2.htm
People are entitled to all the information that is available. They will then be able to make a better decision to join the church or not.
That is exactly the information I give them, Neworder, but it's toned down a just a bit from Richard's message. I really try not to be overly negative, I just want to offer information and let it speak for itself. And, from my experience, it does a pretty good job.
I want to add that I don't tweak Richard's message--I don't feel that would be right and would only use his information exactly as he presented it and give him the credit. I use materials I created myself.
KimberlyAnn wrote:Personally, I think not joining up with the Mormons is a positive! But, I don't really give a "message." I offer truthful information, and what folks do with it is their own business.
As for the Mormons who contact me: I answer their questions and don't really guide them one way or another. If they ask my personal opinion, I give it. But, I don't seek out questioning members, they seek me, so I let them guide the discussions, if that makes any sense. I believe answering their questions and being available if they need me is a positive.
KA
That seems to be a better representation of how I suspected you approach this. The use of "missionary work" as an example was what prompted the question. I was wondering if you were proselyting anything other than that you disagree with certain aspects of Mormonism. Apparently, as you say, you aren't necessarily even proselyting that fact; only discussing it when approached.
One moment in annihilation's waste, one moment, of the well of life to taste- The stars are setting and the caravan starts for the dawn of nothing; Oh, make haste! -Omar Khayaam
LifeOnaPlate wrote:So warning is fine, but is there anything positive offered, as well? Is there any cause, ideology, worldview, which you, or any Mormon critic here advances?
Yes and no. "Don't look there" carries with it the assumption that there is now one less place to waste time looking for it. It's a valid reasoning skill.
The lack of veracity of the Mormon church is only a real letdown to someone already divested in the fraud. That's life. If we don't get over it, it won't make our lot better.
KimberlyAnn wrote:Personally, I think not joining up with the Mormons is a positive! But, I don't really give a "message." I offer truthful information, and what folks do with it is their own business.
As for the Mormons who contact me: I answer their questions and don't really guide them one way or another. If they ask my personal opinion, I give it. But, I don't seek out questioning members, they seek me, so I let them guide the discussions, if that makes any sense. I believe answering their questions and being available if they need me is a positive.
KA
That seems to be a better representation of how I suspected you approach this. The use of "missionary work" as an example was what prompted the question. I was wondering if you were proselyting anything other than that you disagree with certain aspects of Mormonism. Apparently, as you say, you aren't necessarily even proselyting that fact; only discussing it when approached.
You're correct. But, when I notice missionaries visiting anyone in my neighborhood, I do leave information without it being requested. I don't think of that as proselyting, but I don't wait for non-members who are investigating Mormonism to approach me--they may not realize they're not getting the whole truth from the missionaries and might not know to do any real investigating at all. At least with the information I give them, they can make a well-informed decision.
Inconceivable wrote:"Don't look there" carries with it the assumption that there is now one less place to waste time looking for it. It's a valid reasoning skill.
So among other things, your "message" so-to-speak is one that narrows the choices of potential ideologies. That answers my question. [that isn't meant to be sarcastic by the way]
One moment in annihilation's waste, one moment, of the well of life to taste- The stars are setting and the caravan starts for the dawn of nothing; Oh, make haste! -Omar Khayaam
KimberlyAnn wrote:Personally, I think not joining up with the Mormons is a positive! But, I don't really give a "message." I offer truthful information, and what folks do with it is their own business.
As for the Mormons who contact me: I answer their questions and don't really guide them one way or another. If they ask my personal opinion, I give it. But, I don't seek out questioning members, they seek me, so I let them guide the discussions, if that makes any sense. I believe answering their questions and being available if they need me is a positive.
KA
That seems to be a better representation of how I suspected you approach this. The use of "missionary work" as an example was what prompted the question. I was wondering if you were proselyting anything other than that you disagree with certain aspects of Mormonism. Apparently, as you say, you aren't necessarily even proselyting that fact; only discussing it when approached.
You're correct. But, when I notice missionaries visiting anyone in my neighborhood, I do leave information without it being requested. I don't think of that as proselyting, but I don't wait for non-members who are investigating Mormonism to approach me--they may not realize they're not getting the whole truth from the missionaries and might not know to do any real investigating at all. At least with the information I give them, they can make a well-informed decision.
KA
Out of curiosity, does your information say anything about making a prayerful decision?
One moment in annihilation's waste, one moment, of the well of life to taste- The stars are setting and the caravan starts for the dawn of nothing; Oh, make haste! -Omar Khayaam
KimberlyAnn wrote:As a former Mormon, I feel a sense of obligation to share information with folks considering joining Mormonism and also with questioning members. I do not approach questioning members--they approach me. And, when they do, I talk with them. My discussions with questioning Mormons have resulted in my assisting several of them in writing letters of resignation to the Mormon church. It's not easy for me to do that, and I don't revel in it. I know how hard it can be to leave the Mormon church.
I also feel that folks taking the missionary discussions deserve the whole story about Mormonism, the meat as well as the milk, so when I notice the missionaries visiting homes in my neighborhood more than a few times, I drop off pertinent information to those families. I've knocked on the door of a complete stranger before, talked with her about Mormonism, and she decided, along with the rest of her family, to stop visiting with the missionaries. I didn't tell her to stop, or not to join the LDS church, I simply shared information with her--all of it truthful. I've not visited with every family I've known to be taking discussions, but I have left packets of information for them and my email address and phone number if they had any further questions. Some have called, and some haven't. But, I can't not do what I do. I feel obligated, having learned the truth about Mormonism, to share that information with others so that they can make fully informed decisions.
What, if any, obligation do former Mormons have when it comes to sharing information about Mormonism? I'd say none, other than what they personally feel obligated to do. But, other folks may feel differently.
I do know that all the investigators with whom I've spoken have expressed gratitude for what I've shared with them and I don't feel any guilt whatsoever for telling them the truth about Mormonism. Mormon missionaries feel compelled to share their message with folks by going door to door, and the Mormon church asks it's members to share their "gospel" with others, so they can surely understand the obligation some ex-Mormons may feel to share their truth as well.
KA
What packets of information do you give or leave? Who produced it? Is it your or their spin on the "truth." Do you give equal information that may be apologetic in nature or explain what you are sharing in a more positive or more fulll way?
Or do you simply give them negative anti-LDS literature with no resources at all other then that?
KimberlyAnn wrote:As a former Mormon, I feel a sense of obligation to share information with folks considering joining Mormonism and also with questioning members. I do not approach questioning members--they approach me. And, when they do, I talk with them. My discussions with questioning Mormons have resulted in my assisting several of them in writing letters of resignation to the Mormon church. It's not easy for me to do that, and I don't revel in it. I know how hard it can be to leave the Mormon church.
I also feel that folks taking the missionary discussions deserve the whole story about Mormonism, the meat as well as the milk, so when I notice the missionaries visiting homes in my neighborhood more than a few times, I drop off pertinent information to those families. I've knocked on the door of a complete stranger before, talked with her about Mormonism, and she decided, along with the rest of her family, to stop visiting with the missionaries. I didn't tell her to stop, or not to join the LDS church, I simply shared information with her--all of it truthful. I've not visited with every family I've known to be taking discussions, but I have left packets of information for them and my email address and phone number if they had any further questions. Some have called, and some haven't. But, I can't not do what I do. I feel obligated, having learned the truth about Mormonism, to share that information with others so that they can make fully informed decisions.
What, if any, obligation do former Mormons have when it comes to sharing information about Mormonism? I'd say none, other than what they personally feel obligated to do. But, other folks may feel differently.
I do know that all the investigators with whom I've spoken have expressed gratitude for what I've shared with them and I don't feel any guilt whatsoever for telling them the truth about Mormonism. Mormon missionaries feel compelled to share their message with folks by going door to door, and the Mormon church asks it's members to share their "gospel" with others, so they can surely understand the obligation some ex-Mormons may feel to share their truth as well.
KA
What packets of information do you give or leave? Who produced it? Is it your or their spin on the "truth." Do you give equal information that may be apologetic in nature or explain what you are sharing in a more positive or more fulll way?
Or do you simply give them negative anti-LDS literature with no resources at all other then that?
LifeOnaPlate wrote:Is there anything you offer, aside from a counter-explanation? In other words, your work appears to be in preventing, breaking down, etc. Is there a positive message you offer? (I realize some believe that a lack of Mormonism is positive.)
Loap, I'm glad you asked this (I'm sure KA has a strong opinion on this as well).
I was taught by the Mormon church that it is evil to be a "faith destroyer". In other words, to destroy one's faith (in their mormom beliefs) and leave them with nothing in return - it's not kind.
However, sometimes we confuse this term with simply being a "messenger" or "consumer advocate". I believe Mormonism is a fraud (it's not a full disclosure philosophy). It's best in my opinion to warn people not to invest there. Ultimately it brought me a negative return. I hate to see people suffer like myself (and my family) have these past few years.
So in other words you are not willing to give a fair and balanced presentation.