Do women follow the golden rule in romantic relationships?

[_ajax18]

In my struggle to come to grips with the situation I found myself in at birth and to sort out the lens of my own paradigm, other peoples illogical justifications and to come to some semblance of what reality actually is, I could not resist but throw this question out to the field.

I understand that most people if not all cannot afford to be completely honest with themselves. This explains the paradox I pointed out over at MAD when a poster countered that the reward for good deeds was a feeling. I firmly disagree with this because I believe that one can manipulate his feelings by what he allows into his mind. Even if something very ugly about yourself is staring you right in the face, you really don't have to believe it. I think many people often deliberately complicate moral questions as a method to feel good about themselves.

As many other Mormons my age, I was raised with the idea of gender roles. Under this system, I didn't really see marital or romantic relationships as a tit for tat. The golden rule can be easily applied to say the relief society sisters when they deal with each other, the primary children, or even the elders quorum. Yet when you talk about romantic and marital relationships, it doesn't seem to fit in the same way as the good Samaritan or an even better example would be siblings and the moral questions that arise from sibling rivalry.

In theory, at least as my culture presented it to me initially, genders had equally difficult, equally rewarding, equally powerful (yes I know it's a stretch and probably not true for my grandmothers generation back but as a theoretical possiblity) roles. Yet these roles were different, in my mind out of necessity and biology (religion came in response to this) and the fact that the situation is not one of people created equally in ability or in what they desire or what makes them happy.

For this reason, from my paradigm I could envision a polygamous relationhip in which everyone was happy about the deal. Of course most of you find polygamy odious and I respect that. Obviously my world does not include polygamy now, so it's a stretch for me as well. Yet I don't really see anything heavanly about the relationships I've been in and the rules that have governed them now either, nor in many of the male/female relationships I've observed, nor the way relationships and the rules that are portrayed in TV or on the media.

When I asked about what law governs the gender equality world that we live in now, the women of the board responded the golden rule. My question is how many women follow this or even see this as the ideal rule to govern a relationship? (Now I fully admit that most men I've met are selfish, unfair, and also deceive themselves as a mental health protection strategy, but I have to leave that for another thread since I'm a man and in my case, if other men treat me poorly I just find a way to cutoff interaction with them or look forward to the day that I no longer have to interact with them. I usually try to avoid killing people, but even the state doesn't rule this option out completely.)

What are womens expectation in relationships? Do they expect the same thing of themselves or is there some other compensatory expectation that maintains the reciprocity. Or is there no reciprocity at all? Is it true that whoever said love was 50/50 either couldn't count or had never been in a relationship?

So if a girl expects a man to be at least 6' tall before she will consider dating him, does she understand that she should be at the very least 5'6"?

One girl pointed out that she was testing her boyfriend to see how much he loved her by behaving selfishly. This way she wouldn't have to worry about acting morally with him, but rather could just be herself. Of course he endures it because he knows that most women will do that to him and if he doesn't endure it, he'll remain single. So from his perspective it's still worth it, just like it's worth it for a Mexican to be down on his hands and knees picking strawberries for $4/hr. Is this fair simply because this is what the market dictates? I mean, nobody is forcing him to date her? Or would the golden rule say, "If I were in his situation, I wouldn't want someone to do this to me, just because they knew I couldn't find better." How many women ever consider these facts in their analysis?

Is money family money and subject to joint family decision when the man earns it? Is it also subject to joint decisions when the woman earns it? Does family court even see it this way? Admittedly after my year in law school I concluded that most lawyers and judges either lie to themselves or complicate issues as a means of getting the answer they want. This is why you get such illogical legal arguments that fly as having academic merit. If the judge writes it, it doesn't have to be logical or even clearly stated. If 2+2 doesn't equal 6, your job as a lawyer is to make it equal 6 if you want to win the case and progress any in the profession.

I know women hate waiting for men, even after you're married. But do they ever make men wait? Yet most women see no unfairness in this nor do they see it as going against the golden rule. How does this add up in their minds? Or is it just a case that we only consider right and wrong when someone has the power to coerce us to do so?

[_truth dancer]

I think a healthy, happy, fulfilling relationship requires both partners doing their best to be a great partner.

:-)


~dancer~

[_ajax18]

I agree with you on that TD. I guess I'm just interested in understanding the tally system that women are using. The girl I lifted that quote from above who was "testing," her boyfriend is a devout Christian girl. I wouldn't hesitate at all to go into a business relationship with her. She seems very fair and even merciful. Yet something seems to change when she's in a relationship and just doesn't seem like the simple golden rule anymore. To illustrate my point, most women probably see testing a boyfriend as a reasonable part of the dating process. Yet what if he were to test her. Well it would be over in a heartbeat I'm sure. Is that because she's that much better than him, that much more desirable? Not if you define the most desirable man as #1 and pair him with the most desirable woman. They wouldn't rank that far apart. This is clearly a property of gender. As a rule, girls don't chase boys, and most women I've met applaud this. Yet they expect boys to chase them and get upset if they don't. If you want be chased, than chase right? Obviously we don' see this in relationships even with women who otherwise follow the golden rule.

I agree with your statment TD, but I'm looking for a little more definition. What's the standard, love fairness, respect? I don't see any of these in the above scenario, a very common scenario. Do you think the girl I'm speaking of above loves this boy? Would you think that he loved her if he were to test her by being cranky and unreasonable? Is she really doing her best to be a good partner? I think many women would just ignore this fact and point to something else and say that means she's doing her best. This is part of what I mean by lying to yourself to produce a feeling, hence result, that you want. I read Mars and Venus and I just didn't see the fairness in it. I can appreciate that men and women have different needs, but after adding it up, I didn't see it as very fair.

I think relationships happen because a man's sex drive is so strong that he'll do just about anything to make it happen. Of course he can't keep this up forever. He's not biologically cut out to do so. And I think once some of them start thinking clearly again after the testosterone rush of the rut, they start adding up the accounts on each side and wonder if their partner knows how to count. Hence most relationships don't last. But that shouldn't surprise me. I don't think most people are very fair. As a matter of fact, I think they often treat their significant other worse than strangers they meet. Why? Because they can.

[_Dr. Shades]

Ajax18, you're not actually trying to understand women, are you?

[_skippy the dead]

Ajax18, you're not actually trying to understand women, are you?

Or presupposing that women are a homogeneous group that all think exactly alike?

[_Scottie]

Ajax18, you're not actually trying to understand women, are you?

Or presupposing that women are a homogeneous group that all think exactly alike?

Stereotypes exist for a reason. :)

[_ajax18]

Ajax18, you're not actually trying to understand women, are you?

What exactly do I not understand?

[_ajax18]

Ajax18, you're not actually trying to understand women, are you?

Or presupposing that women are a homogeneous group that all think exactly alike?

Our universe is about playing the averages. So one woman takes offense to what I observe with my own eyes and tells me I can't say it's true. That doesn't mean it didn't happen, nor that it's not a good approximation of what usually happens. It just means she too wants to avoid the question because it doesn't give her an answer she can feel good about.

I hear that argument from about every sociological observation I make. That's a peacemakers bandaid, not the truth. It reminds me a lot of what I hear from the Mormon pulpit nowadays.

[_marg]

What's the issue or issues you have Ajax. Are you having difficulties with women at work? In a one to one relationship? You seem to be talking from some personal experience which perhaps is unique to your life. What is it you'd like, what is it you are not getting?

[_truth dancer]

Hi Ajax,

I'm having a difficult time extrapolating your examples to real life.

For example you said, you know women hate waiting for men, then ask, but do they ever make men wait for them.

This makes no sense to me. In a healthy relationship we try not to do those things that irritate the other, we do our best to not get irritated at our partner's idiosyncrasies, and we let go of the tally sheet.

The issue for you seems to be fairness no?

You seem to think men get the raw end of the deal, or that women have the upper hand, or something along these lines.

Does that sum it up?

I don't think relationships where either a man or a woman has some sort of power and control over the other, are healthy.

~dancer~