The Nehor wrote: You assume wrong. I was talking to three female friends and mentioned in the course of conversation that I thought it was possible (and even probable) that women could hold the Priesthood. All said they hoped not and didn't want it.
Well then I guess that disposes of the issue, if your three friends said they don't want it. That must mean no women in the church are interested.
Well, I was responding to where he said 'all' of the women of the Church cared. Now if you want to make a case for 'some' we can discuss that.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics "I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
skippy the dead wrote:Well then I guess that disposes of the issue, if your three friends said they don't want it. That must mean no women in the church are interested.
Sorry Skippy. This is totally off-topic. You must have had a rough weekend, what with the A's sweeping the Giants in San Francisco, 5-1, 4-0, and 5-3. Ouch. Go A's!!
What about this one: And Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lapidoth, she judged Israel at that time. Doesn't that mean that Deborah was a judge of Israel? How could she do that without a prophetic calling? How could she hold that prophetic calling without the priesthood? Did she borrow the priesthood from her husband? This is all so confusing.
Here is LDS doctrine on the matter....
(22-14) Judges 4:1–10. How Was It That a Woman, Deborah, Led Israel?
Israel was sorely lacking in leadership at this time. The regular priesthood leadership was not in effect because the covenant had been broken. Deborah did not direct Israel in any official sense; she was a prophetess who possessed the spirit of prophecy, one of the gifts of the Spirit (see Revelation 19:10; Moroni 10:13; D&C 47:22). She was blessed with spiritual insight and leadership qualities that were not being put to use by any man. Barak would not lead an army against Jabin until Deborah promised to be present (see Judges 4:8–9).
“No special ordination in the Priesthood is essential to man’s receiving the gift of prophecy; bearers of the Melchizedek Priesthood, Adam, Noah, Moses, and a multitude of others were prophets, but not more truly so than others who were specifically called to the Aaronic order, as exemplified in the instance of John the Baptist. The ministrations of Miriam and Deborah show that this gift may be possessed by women also.” (Talmage, Articles of Faith, pp. 228–29; see also Smith, Answers to Gospel Questions, 3:66.)
OLD TESTAMENT STUDENT MANUAL GENESIS–2 SAMUEL (22-14)
"HOW DARE YOU KEEP US WAITING!!!!! I demand you post right this very instant or I'll... I'll... I'll hold my breath until I slump over and bang my head against the keyboard resulting in me posting something along the lines of "SR Wphgohbrfg76hou7wbn.xdf87e4iubnaelghe45auhnea4iunh eb9uih t4e9h eibn z"! "-- Angus McAwesome (Jul 21/08 11:51 pm)
What about this one: And Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lapidoth, she judged Israel at that time. Doesn't that mean that Deborah was a judge of Israel? How could she do that without a prophetic calling? How could she hold that prophetic calling without the priesthood? Did she borrow the priesthood from her husband? This is all so confusing.
Here is LDS doctrine on the matter....
(22-14) Judges 4:1–10. How Was It That a Woman, Deborah, Led Israel?
Israel was sorely lacking in leadership at this time. The regular priesthood leadership was not in effect because the covenant had been broken. Deborah did not direct Israel in any official sense; she was a prophetess who possessed the spirit of prophecy, one of the gifts of the Spirit (see Revelation 19:10; Moroni 10:13; D&C 47:22). She was blessed with spiritual insight and leadership qualities that were not being put to use by any man. Barak would not lead an army against Jabin until Deborah promised to be present (see Judges 4:8–9).
“No special ordination in the Priesthood is essential to man’s receiving the gift of prophecy; bearers of the Melchizedek Priesthood, Adam, Noah, Moses, and a multitude of others were prophets, but not more truly so than others who were specifically called to the Aaronic order, as exemplified in the instance of John the Baptist. The ministrations of Miriam and Deborah show that this gift may be possessed by women also.” (Talmage, Articles of Faith, pp. 228–29; see also Smith, Answers to Gospel Questions, 3:66.)
OLD TESTAMENT STUDENT MANUAL GENESIS–2 SAMUEL (22-14)
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Dang it. I don't have that manual and I haven't been at church for a while to catch the latest teachings. Those teachings, however, are only the opinions of men (as bolded) and will be disregarded as such once future leaders decide to give women the priesthood. ;) They also don't address the fact that she was a judge in Israel. She didn't just lead, according to the biblical text. From what I recall, and my recollections are few at the moment, being a judge in Israel is a specific priesthood calling. Revelation 19:10 is vague enough to not matter on this issue.
silentkid wrote:Dang it. I don't have that manual and I haven't been at church for a while to catch the latest teachings. Those teachings, however, are only the opinions of men (as bolded) and will be disregarded as such once future leaders decide to give women the priesthood. ;) They also don't address the fact that she was a judge in Israel. She didn't just lead, according to the biblical text. From what I recall, and my recollections are few at the moment, being a judge in Israel is a specific priesthood calling.
Actually a Judge was more like a charismatic military leader. A warlord/tribal leader.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics "I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
John Larsen wrote:Except nothing has been decided nor is there any indication that it will be decided. Once again, you are talking as if they will change--but there is no indication whatsoever to indicate this will happen.
It might and it might not. I don't consider it that important. The people who care most tend to be people not in the Church anyways. To continue the analogy you have radical feminist non-golfers demanding a change in policy. Who the hell cares what they think?
Well, I assume that all of the women who have second class citizenship in the Church care. This was a big issue for me since I am married to a woman and have a daughter. So quite a few people care. It boils down to this, men have special status and privilege that women do not. That is the very definition of descrimination.
You assume wrong. I was talking to three female friends and mentioned in the course of conversation that I thought it was possible (and even probable) that women could hold the Priesthood. All said they hoped not and didn't want it.
Nehor - are you sure your three female friends were the not the three nephites in drag.
karl61 wrote:Nehor - are you sure your three female friends were the not the three nephites in drag.
I dated one in the past so I really, really hope they weren't.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics "I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
