Is this statement from the Church (yesterday) true?

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_Mary
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Post by _Mary »

Gazelam wrote:The Church has always taught that we seek out the faithful wherever they can be found, and we ask them to keep the truths they have, and discard the traditions of their fathers that are false.

that's what Christ taught, and that is what continues to be taught.


Gazelam, do you agree with Elder Monson then? What you are saying seems to contradict his directive, in that those of other faiths should be accepted on an 'equal' footing. To me, that doesn't translate to your interpretation which goes back to one of superiority rather than equality?

Mary
_bcspace
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Post by _bcspace »

Gazelam, do you agree with Elder Monson then? What you are saying seems to contradict his directive, in that those of other faiths should be accepted on an 'equal' footing. To me, that doesn't translate to your interpretation which goes back to one of superiority rather than equality?


Are you saying that we are being directed to accept their beliefs as being equally valid?
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_Boaz & Lidia
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Post by _Boaz & Lidia »

bcspace wrote:
Gazelam, do you agree with Elder Monson then? What you are saying seems to contradict his directive, in that those of other faiths should be accepted on an 'equal' footing. To me, that doesn't translate to your interpretation which goes back to one of superiority rather than equality?


Are you saying that we are being directed to accept their beliefs as being equally valid?
Listen to you.

You are part of a cult.
_Gazelam
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Post by _Gazelam »

Miss Taken,

I know plenty of so called "Born again" Christians who know the Bible far better than I do. Their faith in Christ is strong, but in some areas distorted.

I can speak to these people with a great deal of respect and admiration and learn a great deal from them and still know that they need to come to an understanding in regards to how Gods covenants work. that's one of the purposes of the Book of Mormon, to teach people that God is a God of covenants.

How many christians worship Christ while believeing that baptism is unecessary? I can converse with this person and respect their knowledge and faith and still understand that they need to be baptised.

Gaz
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. - Plato
_mms
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Post by _mms »

[MMS] Does this "doctrine" contradict in any prior "doctrine" or teachings of the Church regarding how LDS fair among all believers?


[BC] Of course not. Is there anything you think does contradict?

[/quote]

Well, let's see:

The statement this month was: "Latter-day Saints accept all sincere believers as equals in the pursuit of faith and in the great work of serving humanity."

Elder Bruce R. McConkie, in a GC address later published in the Ensign, May 1974, gave a talk entitled "God Foreordains His Prophets and His People", stated:

All those who receive the Melchizedek Priesthood in this life were, as Alma teaches, “called and prepared from the foundation of the world according to the foreknowledge of God,” because they were among the noble and great in that premortal sphere. (Alma 13:3.)

And Paul says that through this law of foreordination, which he calls the doctrine of election, there came to the whole house of Israel “the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises.” (Rom. 9:4.) He says that the faithful members of the Church, those “that love God” and “are called according to his purpose,” are foreordained “to be conformed to the image of his Son,” to be “joint-heirs with Christ,” and to have eternal life in our Father’s kingdom. (Rom. 8:17, 28.)

He says also of members of the Church that God “hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love,” and that we were foreordained to become the children of Jesus Christ by adoption, thus gaining a “forgiveness of sins” in this life and an inheritance of eternal glory in the life to come. (Eph. 1:7.)

Our revelations, ancient and modern, abound in pronouncements relative to the law of foreordination, both as it applies to specific individuals called according to the foreknowledge of God to special labors in mortality and as it applies to the blessings promised that host of valiant souls who are born in the lineage of Israel and who hear the voice of the Good Shepherd and come into his sheepfold on earth.

***

And hence comes the doctrine of foreordination. When we come into mortality, we bring the talents, capacities, and abilities acquired by obedience to law in our prior existence. Mozart composed and published sonatas when but eight years of age because he was born with musical talent. Melchizedek came into this world with such faith and spiritual capacity that “when a child he feared God, and stopped the mouths of lions, and quenched the violence of fire.” (JST, Gen. 14:26.) Cain, on the other hand, like Lucifer, was a liar from the beginning and was told in this life: “… thou shalt be called Perdition; for thou wast also before the world.” (Moses 5:24.)

Now this is the doctrine of foreordination; this is the doctrine of election. This is the reason why the Lord has a chosen and favored and peculiar people on earth; and this is the reason he said: “My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

“And I give unto them eternal life. …” (John 10:27–28.)

A knowledge of these wondrous truths places upon us a greater burden than rests upon any other people to follow Christ—to take his yoke upon us, to keep his commandments, to do ever those things that please him.


So, did we believe in 1974 that all "sincere believers" despite their beliefs were "equals in the pursuit of faith"? So is it a change, BC?
_bcspace
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Post by _bcspace »

So, did we believe in 1974 that all "sincere believers" despite their beliefs were "equals in the pursuit of faith"?


Was Abraham 3:24-26 LDS scripture in 1974? What about 1 Peter 4:6? In other words, we all have the same mission to accomplish (keep our first estate) and we all will be judged by the same standards.

So is it a change, BC?


No. Your foreordination route does not even apply. You seem to be confusing the pursuit of faith with faith itself. Very similar to evangelicals confusing grace with salvation.
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_moksha
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Post by _moksha »

Miss Taken wrote:If true, the statement is excellent. I applaud it totally.

Sometimes I feel though, that the church just can't win with some people, damned if they do, damned if they don't, where every act, no matter how sincere, is met with cynicism....

Mary


Hear Hear!
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_mms
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Post by _mms »

bcspace wrote:
So, did we believe in 1974 that all "sincere believers" despite their beliefs were "equals in the pursuit of faith"?


Was Abraham 3:24-26 LDS scripture in 1974? What about 1 Peter 4:6? In other words, we all have the same mission to accomplish (keep our first estate) and we all will be judged by the same standards.

So is it a change, BC?


No. Your foreordination route does not even apply. You seem to be confusing the pursuit of faith with faith itself. Very similar to evangelicals confusing grace with salvation.


No confusion at all. Elder McConkie's statements (along with their scriptural bases) make it clear that we are not "equals in the pursuit of faith" but that certain people have a headstart in the pursuit of faith, including many LDS church members. Indeed, would it be accurate to state that, if the end goal were to run a marathon, that some come here physically fit and others physically fat, but we are all equals in the pursuit of running the marathon? I am prepared to be corrected, really, but I find it entirely false to suggest that the result of LDS teachings is that we are all "equals in the pursuit of faith."
_bcspace
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Post by _bcspace »

No confusion at all. Elder McConkie's statements (along with their scriptural bases) make it clear that we are not "equals in the pursuit of faith" but that certain people have a headstart in the pursuit of faith, including many LDS church members. Indeed, would it be accurate to state that, if the end goal were to run a marathon, that some come here physically fit and others physically fat, but we are all equals in the pursuit of running the marathon? I am prepared to be corrected, really, but I find it entirely false to suggest that the result of LDS teachings is that we are all "equals in the pursuit of faith."


Seeing as how we are not allowed to be tempted beyond our ability to resist and seeing as how those callled to be leaders will not have a salvation any different from those who are not (the last shall be first and the first shall be last; he that is greatest among you shall be a servant; set those who are esteemed to be the least among you judge, etc.), I'd say you've been corrected.
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Conservatism is the Gospel of Christ and the Plan of Salvation in Action.
The Degeneracy Of Progressivism.
_mms
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Post by _mms »

bcspace wrote:
No confusion at all. Elder McConkie's statements (along with their scriptural bases) make it clear that we are not "equals in the pursuit of faith" but that certain people have a headstart in the pursuit of faith, including many LDS church members. Indeed, would it be accurate to state that, if the end goal were to run a marathon, that some come here physically fit and others physically fat, but we are all equals in the pursuit of running the marathon? I am prepared to be corrected, really, but I find it entirely false to suggest that the result of LDS teachings is that we are all "equals in the pursuit of faith."


Seeing as how we are not allowed to be tempted beyond our ability to resist and seeing as how those callled to be leaders will not have a salvation any different from those who are not (the last shall be first and the first shall be last; he that is greatest among you shall be a servant; set those who are esteemed to be the least among you judge, etc.), I'd say you've been corrected.


Maybe we were equals at one time, but isn't it true that those who were more valiant in the preexistence are given a headstart in the "pursuit" in this mortal life?
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