Why I am not a Mormon

[_GoodK]

Of course it's religion.

See?

The propensity of believers to insist that things like science and atheism, and, in this case, an explanation of loss of faith, is actually religion is one of the funniest things I've ever seen.

How every religious person defends their faith:

1. Argue that it's true. Literally. (this doesn't last long, for obvious reasons)
2. Argue that it's useful. (this is when the Stalin, Pol Pot arguments begin to surface)
3. Argue that atheism is bad, dogmatic, etc...

[_Moniker]

Thanks for the testimony.

Note the old tried-but-true tactic - when believers want to belittle, they pretend that the critic is engaging in some sort of "religion".

Of course it's religion.

This irritates me for some reason. Why is it a religion? Why is atheism a religion? How so, precisely? How is loss of faith a religion?

I suppose you think the Republican Party is a religion? Train enthusiasts a religion? Old farts that congregate to play Bridge is a religion? Support groups a religion?

[_GoodK]

GoodK,

So what if Christianity and Mormonism are man created religions and not true as to what those religions claims they are.

If Christianity is a man made religion then people should know it. They should know that they are giving away their money because a religion needs to be funded, not because the creator of the Universe commands them to.

What difference does that make as long as one doesn't hurt others and as long as one finds greater personal benefits believing and belonging than not doing so?

It makes a lot of difference.
For one, It takes courage and a desire to find out the truth to reject childhood indoctrination. People that leave the church are demonized as dishonest, sinful - apostates.

Breaking away from Mormonism is harder than it should be. Look at me. I can't post annonymously here without having a Professor at BYU tattling on me, and then trying to justify it as if he had some moral obligation to do so.

I considered posting under another identity because the professor of Islamic Studies and Arabic in the Department of Asian and Near Eastern Languages at a prestigious University figured out my personal identity. Need I say more?

Two, the people that believe in the Christian or Mormon fables think there is nothing better to raise children with than these stories. Religion preys on children. The same people that believe jolly old St. Nick leaves presents under the tree because their parents tell them so are showered with stories of global floods, crucifixion, spirit prison, little factories, Cain and Abel, Nephites and Lamanites, etc...

Third, they enjoy a hefty tax break because they are a church. No church pays taxes. Including these guys.

[_Daniel Peterson]

Look at me. I can't post annonymously here without having a Professor at BYU tattling on me, and then trying to justify it as if he had some moral obligation to do so.

Most of the people here will probably be impressed by your affectation of heroic martyrdom, and will find your version of this convincing.

I'm not impressed, and I know better.

The fact is, though, that your posting here matters not at all to me. I would never have informed your father of it. He knows and I know about your atheism. That's not news. It was when you mocked him quite contemptuously while he was dealing with your hospitalized and seriously ill sister, his daughter, that you gave your identity away. I thought he should know that you were making public fun of him. I would have wanted to know, if my son had been doing such a thing.

I considered posting under another identity because the professor of Islamic Studies and Arabic in the Department of Asian and Near Eastern Languages at a prestigious University figured out my personal identity. Need I say more?

It didn't take much sleuthing. You posted, and made fun of, passages from a letter written by your father that he had also sent to me and to others.

Incidentally -- for the record -- I'm a Mormon partially because I disagree with the reasons that you adduce to justify your decision to reject Mormonism.

[_Rollo Tomasi]

Look at me. I can't post annonymously here without having a Professor at BYU tattling on me, and then trying to justify it as if he had some moral obligation to do so.

The fact is, though, that your posting here matters not at all to me. I would never have informed your father of it. He knows and I know about your atheism. That's not news. It was when you mocked him quite contemptuously while he was dealing with your hospitalized and seriously ill sister, his daughter, that you gave your identity away. I thought he should know that you were making public fun of him. I would have wanted to know, if my son had been doing such a thing.

You were out of line, Dan. You should not have gotten involved in or created a family problem like you did here. It was none of your business, and your inserting yourself was very bad form.

[_marg]

I thought he should know that you were making public fun of him. I would have wanted to know, if my son had been doing such a thing.

Wow, aren't you a busy-body!

[_Daniel Peterson]

You were out of line, Dan.

I disagree.

On the other hand, although his behavior in this tends to be given a pass or even perhaps celebrated, I think that GoodK was out of line.

You should not have gotten involved in or created a family problem like you did here.

The extent of my involvement was to call GoodK's father's attention to GoodK's insulting public remarks about him. That's it.

I would have wanted to know about it if my son had been posting public mockery of me. On the basis of that reasoning, I decided to let GoodK's father know about GoodK's post.

So far as I'm aware, this created no "family problem."

But it's instructive that you're inclined to shoot the messenger here, with little or no apparent indignation left over for GoodK.

It was none of your business, and your inserting yourself was very bad form.

I disagree.

[_Rollo Tomasi]

On the other hand, although his behavior in this tends to be given a pass or even perhaps celebrated, I think that GoodK was out of line.

Doesn't matter. This is no justification for what you did.

You should not have gotten involved in or created a family problem like you did here.

The extent of my involvement was to call GoodK's father's attention to GoodK's insulting public remarks about him. That's it.

That was enough to create the referenced family problem.

I would have wanted to know about it if my son had been posting public mockery of me. On the basis of that reasoning, I decided to let GoodK's father know about GoodK's post.

It doesn't matter if you would want to know -- GoodK is not your son and we are not talking about your family. Show some restraint, and butt out of others' affairs.

So far as I'm aware, this created no "family problem."

Have you talked to the father or some other member of the family, to know this?

But it's instructive that you're inclined to shoot the messenger here, with little or no apparent indignation left over for GoodK.

GoodK never designated you as his "messenger" -- it's something you took upon yourself, when you should have just stayed out of it.

[_Daniel Peterson]

Wow, aren't you a busy-body!

Actually, I'm not. (Though your desire to insert yourself into a situation involving a father, a father's son, and a father's friend no doubt qualifies you, in most cases, to recognize a busybody when you see one!)

But, again, I think it's fascinating that the indignation here is reserved for me, for my having mentioned GoodK's public mockery of his father to GoodK's father, rather than for GoodK, who did the public mocking.

People who typically rail against the LDS Church for suppressing facts and failing to fully disclose now rail against me for failing to suppress a fact and for disclosing.

Presumably, it's because GoodK is on the Right Side (atheism), while I'm on the Wrong Side (Mormonism).

But I'm not going to discuss this any further. I've stated my view of the situation, which, I recognize, is not widely accepted here. I'm not sure that I see anything to be gained by further conversation on it. I also don't believe in arguing whether broccoli tastes good or bad. As I often observe, de gustibus non disputandum est.

Have you talked to the father or some other member of the family, to know this?

Yup. GoodK's father and I are friends. We communicated by e-mail while GoodK's sister was in intensive care here in Utah Valley, and we also spent time together when GoodK's father was in town. GoodK's public derision of his father merited, at most, thirty to sixty seconds of our conversation.

[_Daniel Peterson]

GoodK never designated you as his "messenger" -- it's something you took upon yourself, when you should have just stayed out of it.

I wasn't aware that the author of a public post on a public message board needed to authorize somebody as a "messenger" in order for that person to have the authority to draw the attention of any other person to the public message board on which that public post was publicly posted.

LOL. That's why I come to such boards as this -- to learn new information.