Why I am not a Mormon

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_EAllusion
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Post by _EAllusion »

Rollo Tomasi wrote:
Daniel Peterson wrote:But I did and do find what you posted about your father contemptuous.

I went back and read GoodK's original post from March that started all this, and I did not read it as being "contemptuous" or "mocking" of his father. What I think really pissed you off (and caused you to lash out by forwarding the post to GoodK's father) was the post's perhaps being "contemptuous" or "mocking" of your beloved FARMS.


He called him a Mormon blowhard. From the content of the letter it appears he was bragging about the efficacy of his particular superstition, so that insult doesn't strike me as off, but it is mocking.
_LifeOnaPlate
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Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2007 4:50 pm

Post by _LifeOnaPlate »

Moniker wrote:
LifeOnaPlate wrote:
beastie wrote:
Thanks for the testimony.


Note the old tried-but-true tactic - when believers want to belittle, they pretend that the critic is engaging in some sort of "religion".


Of course it's religion.


This irritates me for some reason. Why is it a religion? Why is atheism a religion? How so, precisely? How is loss of faith a religion?

I suppose you think the Republican Party is a religion? Train enthusiasts a religion? Old farts that congregate to play Bridge is a religion? Support groups a religion?


Certainly these things can be included in one's religion.
One moment in annihilation's waste,
one moment, of the well of life to taste-
The stars are setting and the caravan
starts for the dawn of nothing; Oh, make haste!

-Omar Khayaam

*Be on the lookout for the forthcoming album from Jiminy Finn and the Moneydiggers.*
_LifeOnaPlate
_Emeritus
Posts: 2799
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2007 4:50 pm

Post by _LifeOnaPlate »

Rollo Tomasi wrote:You were out of line, Dan. You should not have gotten involved in or created a family problem like you did here. It was none of your business, and your inserting yourself was very bad form.


Nonsense.
One moment in annihilation's waste,
one moment, of the well of life to taste-
The stars are setting and the caravan
starts for the dawn of nothing; Oh, make haste!

-Omar Khayaam

*Be on the lookout for the forthcoming album from Jiminy Finn and the Moneydiggers.*
_LifeOnaPlate
_Emeritus
Posts: 2799
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2007 4:50 pm

Post by _LifeOnaPlate »

Dr. Shades wrote:
Daniel Peterson wrote:I wasn't aware that the author of a public post on a public message board needed to authorize somebody as a "messenger" in order for that person to have the authority to draw the attention of any other person to the public message board on which that public post was publicly posted.


With all due respect to you, sir, since GoodK had the forbearance to withhold his father's, his sister's, and his own names, no casual viewer of this board could have possibly known whom he was talking about, so I don't think that GoodK was out of line for sharing what he did--and thus didn't merit having his words brought to his father's (or sister's) attention, since they couldn't have been affected in real life.



With all due respect to you, sir, Daniel Peterson had the forbearance to withhold GoodK's father's, his sister's, and his own name; no casual viewer of this board could have possibly known whom he was talking about. For the record, is that correct?
One moment in annihilation's waste,
one moment, of the well of life to taste-
The stars are setting and the caravan
starts for the dawn of nothing; Oh, make haste!

-Omar Khayaam

*Be on the lookout for the forthcoming album from Jiminy Finn and the Moneydiggers.*
_GoodK

Post by _GoodK »

LifeOnaPlate wrote:
Dr. Shades wrote:
Daniel Peterson wrote:I wasn't aware that the author of a public post on a public message board needed to authorize somebody as a "messenger" in order for that person to have the authority to draw the attention of any other person to the public message board on which that public post was publicly posted.


With all due respect to you, sir, since GoodK had the forbearance to withhold his father's, his sister's, and his own names, no casual viewer of this board could have possibly known whom he was talking about, so I don't think that GoodK was out of line for sharing what he did--and thus didn't merit having his words brought to his father's (or sister's) attention, since they couldn't have been affected in real life.



With all due respect to you, sir, Daniel Peterson had the forbearance to withhold GoodK's father's, his sister's, and his own name; no casual viewer of this board could have possibly known whom he was talking about. For the record, is that correct?


What are you talking about, LOAP? Dan didn't even post on that thread. He merely trolled through it and sent the contents to my parents.
_richardMdBorn
_Emeritus
Posts: 1639
Joined: Sat Oct 28, 2006 3:05 am

Re: Why I am not a Mormon

Post by _richardMdBorn »

GoodK wrote:1. Christianity. It can't be true. The Bible, and the existence of God, is easily the biggest reason why I am not a Mormon.
Hi GoodK. Your post lured me out of semi-retirement from the MB. Please expand on these points (though you might want to do it in a new thread).

Richard
_LifeOnaPlate
_Emeritus
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Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2007 4:50 pm

Post by _LifeOnaPlate »

GoodK wrote:
LifeOnaPlate wrote:
Dr. Shades wrote:
Daniel Peterson wrote:I wasn't aware that the author of a public post on a public message board needed to authorize somebody as a "messenger" in order for that person to have the authority to draw the attention of any other person to the public message board on which that public post was publicly posted.


With all due respect to you, sir, since GoodK had the forbearance to withhold his father's, his sister's, and his own names, no casual viewer of this board could have possibly known whom he was talking about, so I don't think that GoodK was out of line for sharing what he did--and thus didn't merit having his words brought to his father's (or sister's) attention, since they couldn't have been affected in real life.



With all due respect to you, sir, Daniel Peterson had the forbearance to withhold GoodK's father's, his sister's, and his own name; no casual viewer of this board could have possibly known whom he was talking about. For the record, is that correct?


What are you talking about, LOAP? Dan didn't even post on that thread. He merely trolled through it and sent the contents to my parents.


Ah, I see. So, in other words, Daniel Peterson had the forbearance to withhold GoodK's father's, his sister's, and his own name; no casual viewer of this board could have possibly known whom he was talking about, or that he even e-mailed your father. Even better.
One moment in annihilation's waste,
one moment, of the well of life to taste-
The stars are setting and the caravan
starts for the dawn of nothing; Oh, make haste!

-Omar Khayaam

*Be on the lookout for the forthcoming album from Jiminy Finn and the Moneydiggers.*
_GoodK

Post by _GoodK »

LifeOnaPlate wrote:
GoodK wrote:
LifeOnaPlate wrote:
Dr. Shades wrote:
Daniel Peterson wrote:I wasn't aware that the author of a public post on a public message board needed to authorize somebody as a "messenger" in order for that person to have the authority to draw the attention of any other person to the public message board on which that public post was publicly posted.


With all due respect to you, sir, since GoodK had the forbearance to withhold his father's, his sister's, and his own names, no casual viewer of this board could have possibly known whom he was talking about, so I don't think that GoodK was out of line for sharing what he did--and thus didn't merit having his words brought to his father's (or sister's) attention, since they couldn't have been affected in real life.


Clearly you don't get it.
With all due respect to you, sir, Daniel Peterson had the forbearance to withhold GoodK's father's, his sister's, and his own name; no casual viewer of this board could have possibly known whom he was talking about. For the record, is that correct?


What are you talking about, LOAP? Dan didn't even post on that thread. He merely trolled through it and sent the contents to my parents.


Ah, I see. So, in other words, Daniel Peterson had the forbearance to withhold GoodK's father's, his sister's, and his own name; no casual viewer of this board could have possibly known whom he was talking about, or that he even e-mailed your father. Even better.


Clearly you don't get it. The problem isn't him revealing my identity.
_solomarineris
_Emeritus
Posts: 1207
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2007 1:51 am

Re: Why I am not a Mormon

Post by _solomarineris »

GoodK wrote:Surprisingly, no one has ever asked me. I often meet people who ask me if I am Mormon. Usually I get asked because I am in a Mormon crowd or I meet someone who knows my family, but once I answer the reasons don't seem to matter.
Even BYU professors, who take interest in the personal identity behind the moniker GoodK, don't seem to care why I am not a Mormon. They seem content with knowing I am an "atheist" and commenting accordingly, as if that were good enough of an explanation, in their favor.

So, as Dennis Prager would advise, clarity is often better than agreement.

I'm going to share a few reasons with those BYU professors, F.A.R.M.S contributors, and specifically for those particularly arrogant on-line message board posters whom insist that only sin or contempt contribute to apostasy. I'm not going to behave like Tal Bachman and write a letter to my bishop or stake president, because my issue is not with them. I have yet to recieve a call from either of them asking me why I wasn't in church the last 400 Sundays.
My issue is with those that see it fit to condemn me for leaving the church, and for reasons they don't understand or care to understand.
I'm not going to spend time trying to make each argument. Each is certainly debatable and open for discussion, but what I want is to be clear to those members that know me on some sort of personal level - and even those that don't - on the reasons why I am not a member of a church I frankly miss being a member of.

1. Christianity. It can't be true. The Bible, and the existence of God, is easily the biggest reason why I am not a Mormon.
2. Joseph Smith Jr is not a saint. Even if he was never "convicted" of fraud in the money digging trial, even if he "didn't consummate" the marriages to his other wives, even if he didn't intentionally defraud those who had money invested in his bank, he is not the saint that the church portrays him to be.

The reason why this is number 2 on my list is not because of the issues nearly as much as it is about how the church responds.
For instance, in 1st Nephi 12:18 Nephi mistakenly refers to "Jesus Christ" a generation before he would have known him by that name, contradicting 2 Nephi 10:3. Instead of the Church officially explaining this the way Royal Skousen has, someone edited it to read "Messiah" and all is forgiven.

Ignoring any wishy-washy explanation from Skousen or those apologists who attempt to explain this away, the church's decision to change the
word in the text is highly suspect.

3. The Church omits details and tries to implicate those that bring unflattering information forward as dishonest, vindictive, "anti", or otherwise worthy of contempt.

My best friend, returning from his mission over a year ago, in <snip> at BYU, with parents serving as <snip>, had no clue a top hat was involved in the translation process. He literally became upset when he saw the South Park episode depicting the translation in this way and said in a defeated, sad voice that made me feel guilty "that's not true." He wouldn't watch any more. He knew he had to avoid this information at all costs. He was conditioned to object to any information that the church had not commissioned. This sort of roundabout secrecy makes me suspicious of the higher ups in the Church and where their hearts really are.

4. The church wants money. Lot's of it. Why? We don't know. They won't disclose their finances.

5.The Book of Mormon is not a translation of an ancient text. Neither is the Book of Abraham.

6. The prophet of the church seems more interested in meeting with politicians than communicating with the lowly members of his church.
He actually had the audacity to issue a letter, urging members to refrain from sending in letters that pose doctrinal questions!
His counsel is consistently under-whelming (don't gamble, don't look at porn, don't borrow more than you can pay back, lobby to keep gays from marrying...) yet he is out of reach to the average member of the church who would like nothing more than to shake hands with the prophet.

Politicians and lucky career-Mormons get the chance, but faithful members like my parents (who have likely given an obscene amount of money to the church through tithing) would never get the chance to meet their leader. I have told my parents many times that I wanted to meet the prophet myself and just shake his hand, so I could know what kind of man he was. I was told, in other words, that I have a better chance of meeting L. Ron Hubbard.

So there you have it, in that order of importance, a brief synopsis of why I am not a Mormon.

Now I imagine this won't get a second glance from those that it is directed towards, but one can only hope. If anything, I'd like members of the church to stop
demonizing those that left, including myself. The reasons why I am not a Mormon have everything to do with the church and what it claims to be. I never set out trying to find an excuse to leave. I miss the comradery of teachers quorum, of morning basketball, of mutual activities.
I grew up in a wonderful ward and stake. If I could suspend all skepticism and go back to believing, I think I would.

I don't need to tell anyone here that some of the kindest, good natured people are members of the church. For the last few years I really believed in the church, my testimony relied on the character of a select few people. I feel bad for anyone who is taken for a loop by any kind of multilevel marketing fairy tale, but Mormonism seems to do so much more to intrude on the lives of those that become involved.
In no way do I fault the members for the scam that has been pulled over on them. I don't think they know. But the guys at the top, they should know. And that's who I want to talk to. I want them to know why I am not a Mormon.


Are you done with your testimony?
_GoodK

Re: Why I am not a Mormon

Post by _GoodK »

solomarineris wrote:Are you done with your testimony?


Yes. As indicated by the period. Good contribution.
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