Friendly with apostates--maybe it's bad after all

[_asbestosman]

I can't for the life of me see how your disagreement with the church on a policy/political matter makes you out of harmony with the gospel. I doubt very much that the church expects every member of the church to agree on this.

But I feel I am out of harmony with the Church's Proclomation to the Family:
We call upon responsible citizens and officers of government everywhere to promote those measures designed to maintain and strengthen the family as the fundamental unit of society.

It sounds like the government should remain involved in marriage, not just children as I had supposed.

To me this isn't necessarily an issue of me having done something worth of church court. It is an issue of doing what I should be doing. Would God rather have me favor that the government should get out of marriage altogether, or would He rather have me favor that the government protect marriage as between a man and a woman?

[_The Nehor]

I can't for the life of me see how your disagreement with the church on a policy/political matter makes you out of harmony with the gospel. I doubt very much that the church expects every member of the church to agree on this.

But I feel I am out of harmony with the Church's Proclomation to the Family:
We call upon responsible citizens and officers of government everywhere to promote those measures designed to maintain and strengthen the family as the fundamental unit of society.

It sounds like the government should remain involved in marriage, not just children as I had supposed.

To me this isn't necessarily an issue of me having done something worth of church court. It is an issue of doing what I should be doing. Would God rather have me favor that the government should get out of marriage altogether, or would He rather have me favor that the government protect marriage as between a man and a woman?

Talk to God about it. If he tells you to act, act. If not, don't worry much about it. There are hundreds of good causes I support but I probably actively support less then a dozen due to limitations in resources.

[_beastie]

To me this isn't necessarily an issue of me having done something worth of church court. It is an issue of doing what I should be doing. Would God rather have me favor that the government should get out of marriage altogether, or would He rather have me favor that the government protect marriage as between a man and a woman?

God isn't going to tell you what to do. Either there is no God or he prefers to remain silent.

You're just going to have to decide, on your own, which course you feel best about.

I had a similar dilemma during the ERA incident. My home ward was in a target state, and we were constantly exhorted to be politically active in order to oppose passage of the amendment. The church arranged bus trips to DC to protest, and devoted "homemaker meetings" to getting the sisters to all sit down and write letters to our congressman - giving us a script but telling us to deviate enough from the script so it didn't sound scripted.

I was a fully active believer at the time. I had struggled with the ERA issue ever since I joined the church at 19. I did everything I could to try to intellectually and spiritual resolve it by somehow coming to agree with the church on the issue.

I just couldn't.

I resolved it by not getting involved at all. I didn't participate in the homemaking meetings, I didn't go on the bus trips. I didn't write to my congressman. But I also did not actively oppose the church's opposition.

I just remained silent.

During this time period, I also didn't vote. I knew what the church leaders wanted us to think about politics, as much as they danced around it. But I could not bring my conscience around to their viewpoint. So my solution was to not participate at all.

I'm not saying it was the best solution. But I do believe that following the counsel of the leaders in these incidents would NOT have brought me happiness and peace. I had already tried to reconcile myself to their teachings and simply could not. So doing nothing was the best solution I could come up with.

Oh, and by the way, I wasn't associating with apostates. My own mind, my own thinking, was the problem. That's your problem, asbman. You're thinking. You're just going to have to decide whether the cost of your thinking is worth it.

[_Black Moclips]

I would think that in a perfect world, the church as an organization would not need to exist. People would be intouch and intune with God directly and would live by their own conscience and inspiration. The church says it wants you to live this way, all the while giving pronouncements on the smallest of things (being commanded in all things). I think it just goes to show that there is a secular/corporate part of the church that seeks to be important and meaningful in people's lives because it needs to be needed, otherwise, its existence is not justified. How many people's real life jobs and careers would be affected by doing away with the corporate structure and entities?

Anyway, if there is God, and he is our father, then I would think you could have a relationship with him independent of any church or structure. I think all the rest of the story is mumbo jumbo added by man to create authority, power, and dependence (with possibly the best intentions in mind).

Either way Abman, you seem to be a good person trying to do the right thing.

[_moksha]

While we can strongly condemn sin, I think it's important to keep in mind Paul's admonition to Timothy (Dude, close your eyes):

23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.

24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,

25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

We can rebuke with sharpness while showing afterward an increase in love.

Makes sense. Discharge our own anger out so we can be more loving.

[_asbestosman]

If we wish to continue the topic of homosexual marriage, I would prefer it to be in a different thread.

[_harmony]

I'm not sure why this is causing you such angst. If you agree with CI, you support the church's position. So what's the problem?

Because until recently I have not agreed with CI.

You're allowed to change your mind. And you're allowed to change your mind again, should the circumstances and your personal inspiration make that the best for you.

[_Scottie]

If we wish to continue the topic of homosexual marriage, I would prefer it to be in a different thread.

[Per Abman's request, all gay marriage posts have been split]