Non-religious, socialist societies are happier

[Guest]

I was going to write virtually the same post as you Gad. I had most of it written up when I decided against it. But since you went to the trouble, I'll add a few things I was planning on saying.

Norway significantly outstrips the US. They blow us out of the water. This is due to their oil wealth. Their economy is so strong probably despite their socialist policies, not because of them.

There are a few different ways of calculating GDP per capita. The numbers vary a little depending on what calculation you use.

Droopy ought to share the basis for his false claim.

Finally, this all was beside the point of the happiness surveys. Columbia is high on the list and their economy is awful.

[_EAllusion]

Combine that with stagnant and near stagnant economies, high unemployment, and prohibitive costs of living, and one can see why all the porn and drug usage. Bread and circuses for the masses as the rulers feed from the labors of those same masses.

It's also worth noting that drug use in the Scandinavian countries, Denmark in particular, is much lower than it is in the US. Maybe Droopy simply assumed the more liberal drug laws translated into more drug use period. Um, no.

e.g.

http://medicine.plosjournals.org/perlse ... 21902f#top

[_Chap]

And on teen abortion we have these comparisons:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/he ... ensex.html

Country Abortions per 1,000
Sweden (1996) 17.2
France (1995)* 10.2
Canada (1995) 21.2
Great Britain (1995)** 18.4
United States (1996) 29.2

USA! USA!

Oh, and don't ask about the annual syphilis rates per 100,000 amongst 15-19 year olds: with Sweden at 0.6 per 100,000 for syphilis and the US up there at 6.4, we are showing the world the way to go! Must be doing something right in the way we deal with the sexuality of young people round here!

[_Droopy]

If Sweden were our 51st state, it would be the poorest state in the Union, poorer than Mississippi. Galloping social pathologies there, including drug use, high divorce rates, unwed motherhood, and youth suicide preceded ours by some time, being well ahead of us as early as the late sixties.

The aggressively well-read Droopy gives us another one of his fact-filled lessons on macroeconomics and politics. But where does he come up with it all?

https://www.cia.gov/library/publication ... 4rank.html

Sweden GDP/capita, 36,500$ a year. Lower than the US (though look at Norway, talk about off the charts) but let's break down the US:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U. ... a_(nominal)

bzzzzzzzt. Looks like Sweden is doing substantially better than Mississippi and South Carolina I might add. In fact, the real joy is that: IT'S DOING BETTER THAN UTAH! LOL! Old GBH's wild building campaings not withstanding. Sweden would be 21st state GDP/capita wise, better than average. Fortunately for the US, we do better than Sweden overall because while we've got Coggins in SC bringing down the curve, there's all these democratic voting states with very high GDP per capita saving the day.

And the CIA doesn't seem nearly as pessimistic about Sweden as Coggins. I won't quote it for the sake of space but a lot of positive things going on in Sweden.

According to CIA:

AIDS in US (est) .6%, in sweden .1%

average life expectancy higher in Sweden too.

...hmmm

While Swedes per capita average US equivalent $35,000 per year, what Gad and others here are mysteriously remiss in making clear is that the Swedish government siphons off and spends well over half the wealth created in that country by its private sector. Hence, while a Swedes paycheck may reflect a specific dollar amount, his actual buying power, and approximate living standard as measured by what he can accumulate for himself and his family through his own labor or economic activity, is quite limited as compared to the average American.

Statistics of course, can be used to prove pretty much anything, which is why I don't much like arugments invovling them unless all of them are put on the table. While Swedes appear to make a per capita average income comparable to that of Americans, avreage family income is only $26,800, as over against a median of $39,400 for American households. When one combines a traditional 55% tax rate, the highest in the world, with layers of other taxes including property, a VAT, and corporate taxes, the Swedish states sucks some 70% of the productive capital created by its own citizens out of the private sector.

Some antidotes to the parsing of the evidence by E, Gad, and Chap can be found here:


http://www.namyth.com/SocialismWORKS!/i ... Sweden#sol

http://www.reason.com/news/show/31174.html

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1679575/posts (espeicially the short article and the first blog response at the top).

http://dbarf.blogspot.com/2008/03/failu ... weden.html

http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial ... =110005242

And here, you see a very mixed bag of economic dynamics:

http://www.heritage.org/Index/country.cfm?id=Sweden

Interesting mix. Its easier to start a business in Sweden than in most other countries, but very difficult for one who starts that business to keep and spend the fruits of his labor on himself and his own family. Government is suffocating and omnipresent. Some in this forum would be well pleased with such a situation. Others would not.

[_Droopy]

Could somwone (mod) please break up the long hyperlink? The post has become unreadable.

[_The Dude]

Have they done a poll of children? I wouldn't be surprised if kids are happier in December and early April if they believe in Santa and the Eastery Bunny. Wouldn't surprise me a bit.

[_Chap]

While Swedes per capita average US equivalent $35,000 per year, what Gad and others here are mysteriously remiss in making clear is that the Swedish government siphons off and spends well over half the wealth created in that country by its private sector. Hence, while a Swedes paycheck may reflect a specific dollar amount, his actual buying power, and approximate living standard as measured by what he can accumulate for himself and his family through his own labor or economic activity, is quite limited as compared to the average American.

I wonder if Droopy could get his head round the concept that there exist groups of people who, seeing the alternatives available elsewhere, actually vote in full knowledge of the facts for governments that tax them quite highly, so reducing their cash disposable income, but use the taxation so raised to provide excellent public services such as free child care and recreation facilities, free health care, really good and cheap public transport, a clean and safe urban environment, and so on?

I hope he doesn't mind if they continue to make that immoral, pauperising and really un-American choice?

[Guest]

And on teen abortion we have these comparisons:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/he ... ensex.html

Country Abortions per 1,000
Sweden (1996) 17.2
France (1995)* 10.2
Canada (1995) 21.2
Great Britain (1995)** 18.4
United States (1996) 29.2

USA! USA!

Oh, and don't ask about the annual syphilis rates per 100,000 amongst 15-19 year olds: with Sweden at 0.6 per 100,000 for syphilis and the US up there at 6.4, we are showing the world the way to go! Must be doing something right in the way we deal with the sexuality of young people round here!

Chap, of course, and as usual, cannot afford to be intellectually honest with his data. What I said was that Sweden lead American in high social pathology, such as high divorce rates, well before those rates came to fruition here. I believe I mentioned the sixties.

In any case, far few couples in Sweden actually marry, preferring simply cohabitation. Hence, lower divorce rates there are, of course, going to be reflected in the fact that there are few marriages to end in divorce in the first place.

So, the question really is, how many relationships end in effective divorce in Sweden?

Another excellent perspective on the matter Below. Per capita dollar amounts earned before taxes are one way to grease the skids for a leftist in any such argument, but dollar amounts tell only a part of the story:

http://mises.org/story/2190#

And a detailed analysis is here:

http://www.iea.org.uk/files/upld-book331pdf?.pdf

[_Droopy]

Have they done a poll of children? I wouldn't be surprised if kids are happier in December and early April if they believe in Santa and the Eastery Bunny. Wouldn't surprise me a bit.

Leave it to Dude to introduce an utter irrelevancy.

[_Droopy]

Please! Get rid of the long hyperlink, this is an interesting thread!!!!!