The Book of Mormon addresses the "others"

[_Trevor]

LOL! You're on a roll tonight, aren't you? ;)

Even a mirthless, liberal academic can have his moments. ;-)

[_bcspace]

2 Nephi 1:8 And behold, it is wisdom that this land should be kept as yet from the knowledge of other nations; for behold, many nations would overrun the land, that there would be no place for an inheritance.

According to the Book of Mormon there weren't any "others". How do apologists get around this verse when asserting that there were "others" present?

I doesn't say anything at about those already there. It just speaks of the knowledge of the place not had by other nations not already there.

[_Scottie]

2 Nephi 1:8 And behold, it is wisdom that this land should be kept as yet from the knowledge of other nations; for behold, many nations would overrun the land, that there would be no place for an inheritance.

According to the Book of Mormon there weren't any "others". How do apologists get around this verse when asserting that there were "others" present?

I doesn't say anything at about those already there. It just speaks of the knowledge of the place not had by other nations not already there.

I have to agree with BCSpace. You can have inhabitants of a land without anyone knowing of the land.

[_Mad Viking]

2 Nephi 1:8 And behold, it is wisdom that this land should be kept as yet from the knowledge of other nations; for behold, many nations would overrun the land, that there would be no place for an inheritance.

According to the Book of Mormon there weren't any "others". How do apologists get around this verse when asserting that there were "others" present?

I doesn't say anything at about those already there. It just speaks of the knowledge of the place not had by other nations not already there.

That is an interesting interpretation. The verse in question clearly states that if other nations knew about the "land" it would be overrun and there would be no place for the Lehites to inheret. You suggest that the land is already overrun with folks from Asia.

[_Mad Viking]

2 Nephi 1
8 And behold, it is wisdom that this land should be kept as yet from the knowledge of other nations; for behold, many nations would overrun the land, that there would be no place for an inheritance.
9 Wherefore, I, Lehi, have obtained a promise, that inasmuch as those whom the Lord God shall bring out of the land of Jerusalem shall keep his commandments, they shall prosper upon the face of this land; and they shall be kept from all other nations, that they may possess this land unto themselves. And if it so be that they shall keep his commandments they shall be blessed upon the face of this land, and there shall be none to molest them, nor to take away the land of their inheritance; and they shall dwell safely forever.

In verse 8 it is stated that the land has been kept “as yet” from the knowledge of other peoples. That key phrase indicated that up to that time the secret had been kept from other peoples. in my opinion, this does not allow for any other peoples other than those from Jerusalem to be on this land. Furthermore, in verse 9 a promise is made that if the people are righteous, that they will “possess” the land unto themselves. Does this not mean that the will have the land to themselves? If other people are present how could such a promise be made? If other people are already present, this promise has been broken as soon as it is made.

[_cinepro]

Yeah, this verse just rips the idea of "others" to shreds. I mean, Lehi goes out of his way to specifically state that no one else knows about this land, and the only people who get to come there are those that are righteous and brought by the Lord.

Then, they land and find...numerous cities, peoples, and pagan cultures. They intermarry, convert and fight with the local natives. And it never even occurs to them that the land was supposed to be empty and preserved? Or to specifically mention that they have mixed in with a bunch of dark skinned natives? Later, we get chapters and chapters about Alma and other other missionaries going to people and trying to convert them, but there isn't a single verse about the miraculous conversions of people to the Nephite and Lamanite camps that started it all (including them learning the language).

The only way it works is to theorize that God had brought everyone to the land. So the first prehistoric natives that wandered in were brought by God. And the vikings were brought by God. All the innumerable cultures from the Eskimos to the Incas were brought here specifically by God to live in the promised land.


Here's the whole context of that verse, with the phrases I find most problematic highlighted:

2 Nephi 1

[5] But, said he, notwithstanding our afflictions, we have obtained a land of promise, a land which is choice above all other lands; a land which the Lord God hath covenanted with me should be a land for the inheritance of my seed. Yea, the Lord hath covenanted this land unto me, and to my children forever, and also all those who should be led out of other countries by the hand of the Lord.(future tense)

[6] Wherefore, I, Lehi, prophesy according to the workings of the Spirit which is in me, that there shall none come into this land save they shall be brought by the hand of the Lord.(if the existing pagan populations were brought by the Lord, then who wouldn't the Lord bring? Who was being kept away? The Atheists?)

[7] Wherefore, this land is consecrated unto him whom he shall bring. And if it so be that they shall serve him according to the commandments which he hath given, it shall be a land of liberty unto them; wherefore, they shall never be brought down into captivity; if so, it shall be because of iniquity; for if iniquity shall abound cursed shall be the land for their sakes, but unto the righteous it shall be blessed forever.

[8] And behold, it is wisdom that this land should be kept as yet from the knowledge of other nations; for behold, many nations would overrun the land, that there would be no place for an inheritance. (How do you define "overrun", and how was it that the land wasn't "overrun" with existing natives when the Lehites showed up?)

[9] Wherefore, I, Lehi, have obtained a promise, that inasmuch as those whom the Lord God shall bring out of the land of Jerusalem shall keep his commandments, (this would include all Book of Mormon peoples) they shall prosper upon the face of this land; and they shall be kept from all other nations, that they may possess this land unto themselves. (so those who are brought out of the Land of Jerusalem, get the land to themselves?) And if it so be that they shall keep his commandments they shall be blessed upon the face of this land, and there shall be none to molest them, (no outsiders or others will bother them) nor to take away the land of their inheritance; and they shall dwell safely forever.

[10] But behold, when the time cometh that they shall dwindle in unbelief, after they have received so great blessings from the hand of the Lord -- having a knowledge of the creation of the earth, and all men, knowing the great and marvelous works of the Lord from the creation of the world; having power given them to do all things by faith; having all the commandments from the beginning, and having been brought by his infinite goodness into this precious land of promise -- behold, I say, if the day shall come that they will reject the Holy One of Israel, the true Messiah, their Redeemer and their God, behold, the judgments of him that is just shall rest upon them.

[11] Yea, he will bring other nations unto them, and he will give unto them power, and he will take away from them the lands of their possessions, and he will cause them to be scattered and smitten. (After the Book of Mormon peoples have had their chance and chosen to reject Christ, then God will bring people from other nations to meddle with them.)

[12] Yea, as one generation passeth to another there shall be bloodsheds, and great visitations among them; wherefore, my sons, I would that ye would remember; yea, I would that ye would hearken unto my words.

[_Scottie]

Also, what is "this land"??

It doesn't necessarily mean that the entire continent of the Americas was the promised land. Just the small area that the Book of Mormon was in.

[_Mad Viking]

Also, what is "this land"??

It doesn't necessarily mean that the entire continent of the Americas was the promised land. Just the small area that the Book of Mormon was in.

OK. Just for the sake of arguement, let's assume that "this land" denotes the areas of what we know as Southern Mexico and Northern C.A. Are we to believe that the memory of this area was wiped from the collective consciousness of those that passed through it on their way to populate South America?

[_cinepro]

Also, what is "this land"??

It doesn't necessarily mean that the entire continent of the Americas was the promised land. Just the small area that the Book of Mormon was in.

OK. Just for the sake of arguement, let's assume that "this land" denotes the areas of what we know as Southern Mexico and Northern C.A. Are we to believe that the memory of this area was wiped from the collective consciousness of those that passed through it on their way to populate South America?

It should also be noted that if the Book of Mormon is referring to Columbus finding the promised land, Columbus never found "America", but only found Central America and Cuba.

[_Trevor]

It should also be noted that if the Book of Mormon is referring to Columbus finding the promised land, Columbus never found "America", but only found Central America and Cuba.

Well, what can you expect from a third-grade education?