The face of sin today often wears the mask of tolerance.

Post by **_beastie** » Sun Jul 27, 2008 8:57 pm

wheat = chaff

Post by **_gramps** » Sun Jul 27, 2008 10:03 pm

Sethbag wrote:For those who don't recognize the photo, those were two teenaged boys in Iran who were hanged by the state because they supposedly had sex with each other.

Regarding tolerance of "evil" being sin, I think people like Gaz, who seem to be perfectly fine with the idea that people such as these boys should be killed by the authorities, are in fact evil. So in a reverse sort of way I agree with Monson.

This post is dead to rights correct, in my opinion. :)

I believe Gaz is evil. He's just getting worse as time goes on. Very scary. Lafferty brothers come to mind.

Harris is right. The moderates really aren't helping anything, shielding these kinds of wackos. Rewarding them even!

Post by **_moksha** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 1:21 am

The Nehor wrote: Maybe you have a higher standard.

My standard? I try to forgive everybody as soon as possible.

Post by **_Thama** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 3:09 pm

I'm getting a stronger and stronger impression, every time that I hear something Monson has said or a FP decision to come out in the last few months, that the Mormon Church is going through a similar leadership crisis that the Catholic Church is. Both JP3 and Hinckley were superb leaders who generally emphasized tolerance and earned respect from leaders and people not of their faiths. Ratzinger and Monson both seem much more fundamentalist in their tendencies, and don't appear to be as concerned with promoting good Christian behavior (in the best sense of the word) than in maintaining doctrinal purity and asserting their claims of authority.

I had all the respect in the world for GBH, even after I stopped believing he was a prophet. I'm totally unimpressed with Monson, and only hope he lives a little longer because Packer would be 10x worse. They intend to keep youth away from sin by making them afraid of those who live "sinful" lifestyles, but fear inevitably breeds hatred.

Post by **_bcspace** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 3:13 pm

Does this statement by Thomas Monson have any bearing on Gordon B Hinckley counseling LDS to 'tolerate your non Mormon neighbors'?

No. But it has everything to do with sins and lifestyles, such as homosexual behavior and other fornication, being considered the norm in society.

Post by **_The Dude** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 3:31 pm

bcspace wrote:No. But it has everything to do with sins and lifestyles, such as homosexual behavior and other fornication, being considered the norm in society.

That's kind of what I thought. Memebers of the LDS Church are already the least likely to say homosexuality should be accepted by society, and I think the goal is 100% rejection of any tolerant feelings for this specific movement. No more compromise.

Post by **_beastie** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 3:37 pm

Maybe it's a backlash of sorts - it seems to me that the church had tried, during GBH's tenure, to remain neutral on whether or not homosexuality is a "choice", and hence focused mainly on homosexual activity. Perhaps the new leadership feels differently on that topic, and feels that sort of careful neutrality was taking the church in the wrong direction, a possible direction of tolerance towards gays.

Post by **_asbestosman** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 6:33 pm

The church has been warning us about sympathizing with evil long before President Monson became the prophet.

Alexander Pope expressed a similar thought concerning the acceptance of evil: Vice is a monster of so frightful mien As to be hated needs but to be seen; Yet seen too oft, familiar with her face, We first endure, then pity, then embrace.

The Gift of the Holy Ghost--A Sure Compass
James E. Faust
Ensign April 1996

Post by **_Mahonri** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 6:59 pm

"The church has been warning us about sympathizing with evil long before President Monson became the prophet."

Yes, they did this during the 1930's and 40's even while encouraging German saints to uphold the govermnent. The government of Adolf Hitler.

Funny how none of the GA's got any kind of spiritual guidance that Hitler was an EVIL MF and they should speak out against him as a Moral Issue. If killing 8 million plus people in torture camps isn't a Moral Issue, nothing is. Yet they remained silent.

Post by **_Sethbag** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 7:43 pm

Vice is a monster of so frightful mien As to be hated needs but to be seen; Yet seen too oft, familiar with her face, We first endure, then pity, then embrace.

So, really, with Gaz and the other Mormonazis who hate fags and want them killed, the ultimate fear is that if they soften up a little on the issue, they'll eventually start boinking other guys too? Are we seeing a response here from guys with some latent homosexual tendencies who are deathly afraid they might rise to the surface?

I guess that's the difference between me and Gaz. I'm comfortable "tolerating" gays, and I am comfortably heterosexual and I believe (since I believe homosexuality is primarily rooted in biology) that there's vanishingly little chance I could be "converted" to homosexuality.

"Homosexuality is a monster of so frightful mien, as to be hated needs but to be seen; Yet seen too oft, familiar with her face, we first endure, then pity, then..." What? I like this ending better "... we first endure, then pity, then come to respect as our brothers and sisters and fellow citizens, and leave them the hell alone."