Teaching them to lie

[_cksalmon]

My point is to declare my contempt for parents who burden their offspring with religion. I don't think parents should have the right to cause so much psychological and emotional damage.

Perhaps you should attempt a grassroots-level push for legislation such that "religious" parents are forbidden by law to teach their religious beliefs to their children.

It might just be the only really "tolerant" thing to do.

Maybe parents should have only the private speech rights you would grant to them? Otherwise, via some Orwellian mechanism (no offense to Orwell, mind you), they should be prosecuted by the State.

This was a ludicrously silly position for Paul Kemp to take, as well, by the way.

Not to get too Droopy on you, but this really is the Left Hand of Darkness: "Free Speech extends just so far as it doesn't interfere with my desire to suppress the free speech of religious parents. It's child abuse! I am correct; you are wrong: therefore, you are forbidden to exercise free speech, since you're an R-tard."

My point is to declare that you have no right to determine what parents teach their children in the privacy of their homes. (I think this sort of thing is actually catching on in Canada, however.--just a heads up.)

You have a manifest axe to grind. Which is fine, for now, I think. I think I just might, too, perhaps (I don't really know), were I in your situation (a de-convert from Mormonism). I would like to think that the supporters of your radically-intrusive, State-powered "remedy" here are quite few in number, however.

You post as quite the fundamentalist.

[_GoodK]

Yawn....

Perhaps you should attempt a grassroots-level push for legislation such that "religious" parents are forbidden by law to teach their religious beliefs to their children.

I'm shocked to learn that is the direction you would take it -- I wasn't suggesting legislating against free speach. A Christian willing to legislate a personal belief, what a surprise...

Maybe parents should have only the private speech rights you would grant to them? Otherwise, via some Orwellian mechanism (no offense to Orwell, mind you), they should be prosecuted by the State.

Parents don't have the right to name their child Tula does the Hula from Hawaii, is that a violation of free speech too? Is that too Leftist for you too? The left hand of evil, drama queen?

My point is to declare that you have no right to determine what parents teach their children in the privacy of their homes. (I think this sort of thing is actually catching on in Canada, however.--just a heads up.)

And I think you are wrong, and with this response, rather boorish.

You have a manifest axe to grind. Which is fine, for now, I think. I think I just might, too, perhaps (I don't really know), were I in your situation (a de-convert from Mormonism). I would like to think that the supporters of your radically-intrusive, State-powered "remedy" here are quite few in number, however.

You post as quite the fundamentalist.

I am fundamentally opposed to adults who dedicate their lives to a fairy tale being allowed to teach messages of hate to trusting children.

I fundamentally believe that an adult believer of Christianity is one of two things - ignorant or a dishonest.

I fundamentally believe that Christianity is disgusting.

Call me a fundamentalist.

[_marg]

marg,

I too am sorry to read this news. Your dad may need various kinds of support having watched close-up the loss of quality of life for your mother. In some cases, perhaps many, people really do choose against quantity of life which has lost any meaningful quality. I think many of us would choose that given circumstances of no real quality of life.

Take care!

Thanks JAK. I agree with you and that's what I intend to do. I'm staying with him at his house for the next 2 weeks, I'll probably be painting kitchen cupboards and in general helping to fix the place up. Then he's coming to stay at mine for a month and we'll take it from there afterwards.

[_cacheman]

Mormon gulag

YDE?

cacheman

[_cksalmon]

I fundamentally believe that an adult believer of Christianity is one of two things - ignorant or a dishonest.

I believe you'll probably grow out of this.

I fundamentally believe that Christianity is disgusting.

Maybe not this, though.

Call me a fundamentalist.

I did.

[_Inconceivable]

..My mom just passed away yesterday after a progressive terminal illness COPD.

marg,

I'm sorry for being insensitive to your family's loss these past few days. I hope that whatever may extend on the other side, that your family and loved ones have been blessed with fond and loving reflections of your mother's intent.

I have no doubts in the afterlife. When people claim to return from a near miss with death, most claim there is a goodness and reunion there.


I find humor in Nicholson's charactor in the "Bucket List" when he says, "..but if there is one, I win". I suppose we'll see.

[_cksalmon]

If so I wasn't taught it being raised without religion. My mom just passed away yesterday after a progressive terminal illness COPD. My 4 brothers, and dad watched her unconscious for a few hours before she died in the hospital. She was actually put in the situation of choosing her own death. She was given basically 2 alternatives...stay on a breathing machine with a hose down her throat and live confined to a bed without being able to talk or move but have full mental faculties probably for about 7 months more at best or go off a breathing machine and likely die. She had to make the choice not the family so I grieve, feel very bad that she knew fully she was choosing to die now in a few days most likely rather than stay alive confined for a longer time. I guess every situation is unique. In her case with her deteriorating state of health and quality of life having been severely diminished as time went on over the past 5 years and it would only continue to diminish further, I don't perceive death as a horrible or worse alternative for her. I learned one of my brothers believes in an afterlife, though he's never expressed any religious belief before. Perhaps he believes in a god perhaps not, I'll ask him tomorrow. When he mentioned he believed in an afterlife I told him he was religious, and he seemed surprised at that, so I suspect a God isn't part of the equation for him.

I'm so sorry for your and your family's loss, Marg.

Chris

[_JAK]

marg,

I too am sorry to read this news. Your dad may need various kinds of support having watched close-up the loss of quality of life for your mother. In some cases, perhaps many, people really do choose against quantity of life which has lost any meaningful quality. I think many of us would choose that given circumstances of no real quality of life.

Take care!

Thanks JAK. I agree with you and that's what I intend to do. I'm staying with him at his house for the next 2 weeks, I'll probably be painting kitchen cupboards and in general helping to fix the place up. Then he's coming to stay at mine for a month and we'll take it from there afterwards.

marg,

This indeed sounds like a very thoughtful plan and making the best for your dad under the circumstances and hopefully for you as well.

Again, my thoughts are with you and for your family.

[_Mahonri]

A lot has been lost from "I teach them correct principles and they govern themselves" and similar statements encouraging those investigatin Mormonism to find out for themselves if they can believe it.

Forced teaching of intolerance is what many religions do. The idea of passing on and sitting on high watching everyone you didn't like burn in hell forever... is the idea of heaven of too many I have met.

What kind of belief is that? And to teach it to kids is shameful.

[_marg]

They likely felt justified in sending me to a Mormon gulag for a year and a half - where the Mormon religion is literally forced on adolescents (for more on this, stay tuned).

So, my point was and is not to rehash - as a certain LDS poster so cleverly dubbed - the GoodK Epistles. My point is to declare my contempt for parents who burden their offspring with religion. I don't think parents should have the right to cause so much psychological and emotional damage.

I don't know what a reasonable solution would be - but I am going to find one.

GoodK your step dad was wrong to send you away. I don't know how he managed to justify it or whether he cared enough to justify it. You really got a terrible deal when it comes to parents, unfortunately.