For Selek--Welcome, want to apologize now?

[_Nightingale]

I've been trying to get Daniel to live up to his beliefs too, and we see how far that's gone....

Seems like you're spitting into the wind with this kind of endeavour - not because it's DCP but I'd say the same for attempts to "get" someone else to do anything the way we think things should be done. The longer I live the more I realize that we cannot hope to influence anyone and certainly can't force another person to toe the line the way we do or think they should. If our beliefs, words, actions, achievements do influence someone (hopefully for the good) that is a bonus. As for nagging, complaining, pushing or pulling someone in the direction we want them to go - good luck with that. It seldom works with our own family. Why would it be effective with someone we don't even know?

In terms of how we think other people should live their beliefs, that is a dicey area. It's too much like being judgemental for me (although a Christian poster on another board insists that is what the Bible instructs us to do). I think it's OK to point out if someone is being an obvious hypocrite (a la John Edwards, who preaches family values and then cheats on his sick wife). For fellow believers who act in ways we may not like, not so much. Too busy removing the beam, yeah?

[_harmony]

I've been trying to get Daniel to live up to his beliefs too, and we see how far that's gone....

Seems like you're spitting into the wind with this kind of endeavour -

Oh, I agree. It just amuses me to point out to one of our prominent apologist that he doesn't appear to even pay lip servie to following the dictates of his own religion.

Hypocrites and all that.

But hey! It makes for amusing conversations.

[_Daniel Peterson]

It just amuses me to point out to one of our prominent apologist that he doesn't appear to even pay lip servie to following the dictates of his own religion.

Hypocrites and all that.

And just think how subchristian and hypocritical I would reveal myself to be if you actually knew me! Or, even, if you had ever met me!

Should you feel inclined to censure
Faults you may in others view
Ask your own heart, ere you venture,
If you have not failings, too. . . .
Do not, then, in idle pleasure,
Trifle with a brother's fame;
Guard it as a value treasure,
Sacred as your own good name.
Do not form opinions blindly;
Hastiness to trouble tends . . .

[_Daniel Peterson]

And yes, you've mellowed. You aren't the old firedog, oozing malice and venom anymore.

LOL. I never was.

You never knew me, Judge Harmony. You don't know me.

[_mms]

It just amuses me to point out to one of our prominent apologist that he doesn't appear to even pay lip servie to following the dictates of his own religion.

Hypocrites and all that.

And just think how subchristian and hypocritical I would reveal myself to be if you actually knew me! Or, even, if you had ever met me!

Should you feel inclined to censure
Faults you may in others view
Ask your own heart, ere you venture,
If you have not failings, too. . . .
Do not, then, in idle pleasure,
Trifle with a brother's fame;
Guard it as a value treasure,
Sacred as your own good name.
Do not form opinions blindly;
Hastiness to trouble tends . . .

Interesting, DCP, that you reserve this kind of thing for people you view as critics. I ask, why is it that you have NEVER posted something like this in response to a Selek or Pahoran post (one of the hundreds of posts that clearly deserved a rebuke by a courageous and true defender of the principles of the Gospel). Again, you reserve your admonishing for those with whom you disagree. You and your friends were simply nowhere to be seen when Selek told me I would spend an eternity in hell. You might have even approved of the statement??? But surely you did not have the courage to admonish one of your own in any public way even when his comment was SOOOOOOOOOO blatantly against what he claims (and you claim) to believe.

I honestly couldn't believe the cowardice of the "defenders" when it came to their own "team" members ( at MAD) clearly rejecting Gospel principles in their statements and interactions, while being very quick to rebuke the critic who was unkind. Still fascinates me.

[_harmony]

And yes, you've mellowed. You aren't the old firedog, oozing malice and venom anymore.

LOL. I never was.

Just because you can't see your own faults doesn't mean you don't have them. It only means you can't improve on them, or repent of them, when you don't acknowledge them.

You never knew me, Judge Harmony. You don't know me.

You don't know that. I may be your SP's wife. I may be your neighbor. You have no idea who I am.

[_harmony]

Interesting, DCP, that you reserve this kind of thing for people you view as critics. I ask, why is it that you have NEVER posted something like this in response to a Selek or Pahoran post (one of the hundreds of posts that clearly deserved a rebuke by a courageous and true defender of the principles of the Gospel). Again, you reserve your admonishing for those with whom you disagree. You and your friends were simply nowhere to be seen when Selek told me I would spend an eternity in hell. You might have even approved of the statement??? But surely you did not have the courage to admonish one of your own in any public way even when his comment was SOOOOOOOOOO blatantly against what he claims (and you claim) to believe.

I honestly couldn't believe the cowardice of the "defenders" when it came to their own "team" members ( at MAD) clearly rejecting Gospel principles in their statements and interactions, while being very quick to rebuke the critic who was unkind. Still fascinates me.

You can't expect an old dog to learn new tricks, mms. He is what he is, and while he may be mellowing slightly, he will never defend the critics, even when his own team is guilty of massive ugliness. And he wonders why someof us comment that he rejects basic principles of the religion he claims to believe.

[_Daniel Peterson]

Interesting, DCP, that you reserve this kind of thing for people you view as critics. I ask, why is it that you have NEVER posted something like this in response to a Selek or Pahoran post (one of the hundreds of posts that clearly deserved a rebuke by a courageous and true defender of the principles of the Gospel). Again, you reserve your admonishing for those with whom you disagree.

In this case, it's not merely that I disagree with harmony, it's that she's talking about me.

Sometimes, when I'm the subject of discussion, I respond. Pretty weird, I realize, but there you have it.

I'm not the internet police. I don't read everything, and I don't feel obligated to involve myself in everything.

You and your friends were simply nowhere to be seen when Selek told me I would spend an eternity in hell.

Unless I'm mistaken, I never saw that.

You might have even approved of the statement???

I don't.

But surely you did not have the courage to admonish one of your own in any public way even when his comment was SOOOOOOOOOO blatantly against what he claims (and you claim) to believe.

I'm sure that that there are milions upon millions of unkind things said every day, on the internet and elsewhere, that I'm too cowardly to condemn.

I honestly couldn't believe the cowardice of the "defenders" when it came to their own "team" members ( at MAD) clearly rejecting Gospel principles in their statements and interactions, while being very quick to rebuke the critic who was unkind. Still fascinates me.

I apologize for not having been there for you.

I know nothing of this incident.

[_mms]

Do you apologize for never having been there for any critic being attacked by one of your own? Or can you explain why you reserve your admonishing for critics? Really. I am curious. And don't claim that you only admonish those who criticize YOU, because we know that is not the case (but I understand the effort to sidestep the obvious point of my post).

Why do you think it is that you and other "defenders" of the principles of the Gospel do not defend said principles when they are being violated by your own. In fact, it would seem that even MORE damage is done to the Church when a "defender" violates the principles so blatantly and openly. One would think that another "defender" would come in and say, "Hey, stop that, you are making us look really bad, here." But no, it simply does not happen. Hmmmm.

[_Daniel Peterson]

Just because you can't see your own faults doesn't mean you don't have them. It only means you can't improve on them, or repent of them, when you don't acknowledge them.

Judge not, that ye be not judged,
Was the counsel Jesus gave;
Measure given, large or grudged,
Just the same you must receive.
Jesus said, "Be meek and lowly,"
For 'tis high to be a judge;
If I would be pure and holy,
I must love without a grudge. . . .

Once I said unto another,
"In thine eye there is a mote,
If thou art a friend, a brother,
Hold and let me pull it out."
But I could not see is fairly,
For my sight was very dim.
When I came to search more clearly,
In mine eye there was a beam.

I may be your SP's wife. I may be your neighbor. You have no idea who I am.

Except, of course, that you live in a little town in Washington State to which evil apostles never come, while I don't; none of my neighbors graduated in sociology from WSU; none of my neighbors works as a fundraiser for a non-profit; and the wife of the brand new president of my home stake (whose name I can't remember, since I'm currently involved in a wholly different stake) probably knows less about me than I know about you. And so forth.