If the Almighty doesn't exist

[_Roger Morrison]

As for Dennis, i find nothing original in his points made here. Very tedious reading... But since I ended scanning it I suggest all the bogey-man stuff posited to follow 'no belief in God' are experienced every day in the USA where 92% of the folks claim to believe in "God". What gives? How does Dennis account for the centuries of bad-stuff in the Judeo-Christian world that claims to believe in "God"???

I would suggest that belief absent faith is pretty worthless. Let's suppose that tomorrow I discover evidence that convinces me that Cthulu is coming to eat the world. Now the smart thing to do would be to prepare and venerate him to make sure he eats me first. However, it's so hard to find good sacrificial chickens and goats and the insane ranting and reading the Necronomicon can be a bit of a bore. So I slack off. Don't worry about it that much and then he arrives and I die a slow torturous death. I believed he was coming. I did not let that belief compel me to action to prepare. Same reason people have no retirement accounts and are overweight and smoke and watch 2 AM infomercials. They know they shouldn't but they don't have a burning faith to lead them to act.

This is why I hope that the Book of Mormon is never proven true. The Church would become filled with those who believe and do nothing. We already have a healthy supply of those.

OK, lets suppose you are the typical LDS convert. You know little if anything about religions, religious history and/or its evolution from the cave. You are likely a nice person who finds it difficult to reject anyone's solicitaion. Especially when it's backed by smiling faces, a clean-cut image and personages that appear harmless to you, a generally trusting person.

In this structured 2-t0-1 pleasant environment you are open to seduction, to which you probably with little if any resistance, willingly submit yourself.

They are skilled in their craft. You are not. They use visual-aids, you have nothing to counter with. Through out their presentation they get confirmation from you, that you agree/understand. If you have questions that they can't/won't answer with a flip of a page or off the top of their heads, it is deferred to a later date "...when it'll be easier for you to understand..."

They close this initial meeting with a prayer designed to touch your heart/soul/spirit as they express gratitude to "God" for spending their time with you, "...a very special person/family..."
An appointment is made for another meeting...

They report back to their ZL, who reports to the MP, who reports to SLC the progress in HIS Mission. You are enamoured by the personalities of the Missionaries, and look forward to their next visit. You are now on your way into Mormonism and...

Nehor, I'm not into unrealities. :-) Warm regards, Roger

[Alf'Omega]

This is why I hope that the Book of Mormon is never proven true.

You have absolutely nothing to worry about here.

[_The Nehor]

OK, lets suppose you are the typical LDS convert. You know little if anything about religions, religious history and/or its evolution from the cave. You are likely a nice person who finds it difficult to reject anyone's solicitaion. Especially when it's backed by smiling faces, a clean-cut image and personages that appear harmless to you, a generally trusting person.

In this structured 2-t0-1 pleasant environment you are open to seduction, to which you probably with little if any resistance, willingly submit yourself.

They are skilled in their craft. You are not. They use visual-aids, you have nothing to counter with. Through out their presentation they get confirmation from you, that you agree/understand. If you have questions that they can't/won't answer with a flip of a page or off the top of their heads, it is deferred to a later date "...when it'll be easier for you to understand..."

They close this initial meeting with a prayer designed to touch your heart/soul/spirit as they express gratitude to "God" for spending their time with you, "...a very special person/family..."
An appointment is made for another meeting...

They report back to their ZL, who reports to the MP, who reports to SLC the progress in HIS Mission. You are enamoured by the personalities of the Missionaries, and look forward to their next visit. You are now on your way into Mormonism and...

Nehor, I'm not into unrealities. :-) Warm regards, Roger

Well, I just hope they are honest enough not to claim a spiritual witness if they don't get one.

[_The Nehor]

Are you seriously suggesting that we should accept that all who claim to follow Christ actually do?

You realize this can be said about Joseph Smith too, right?

Yes, hence our obsession with divine confirmation.

[_Roger Morrison]

[quote="Roger Morrison"]This is why I hope that the Book of Mormon is never proven true.

(i added by RM)
You have absolutely nothing to worry about here.[/quote]

Hey Schmo, how'd you put words in my mouth that I didn't say? Or does it just appear like that to this unsophisticated-one?

NB: I DID NOT SAY, ANYTHING ABOUT THE "BM BEING PROVEN TRUE"!!

[_Roger Morrison]

Nehor said:

Well, I just hope they are honest enough not to claim a spiritual witness if they don't get one.

Who is "they"? The Missionaries or the contact?

[_The Nehor]

Nehor said:

Well, I just hope they are honest enough not to claim a spiritual witness if they don't get one.

Who is "they"? The Missionaries or the contact?

I was referring to the contact specifically but I think the advice is good for everyone.

[_Roger Morrison]

I agree, "it is good advice for everyone." Unfortunately some/many/most (dare I say all?) who profess themselves the recipient of such a message, are in the same category as one who declares themselves to be "hummble"; an oximoron...

I tend to believe, after many decades of listening to and observing Mormons in every level of membership and leadership that dialogue, demeanor and costume is/are tailored to fit the occasion: shop-talk; family-talk; church talk; gym-talk et al.

Gotta go. Company came in... Probably said enough anyway... Warm regards, Roger

[_Some Schmo]

NB: I DID NOT SAY, ANYTHING ABOUT THE "BM BEING PROVEN TRUE"!!

Whoops! Sorry... unintentional quoting error there. It's fixed now.

Sorry about that, Roger.

I confirm that it was not Roger who said that.

[_Jason Bourne]

I think there are some good points as well as some not so good.

What are the good points?

These I think are the best points he made.



What one almost never hears described are the deleterious consequences of secularism — the terrible developments that have accompanied the breakdown of traditional religion and belief in God. For every thousand students who learn about the Spanish Inquisition and the Salem Witch Trials, maybe two learn to associate Gulag, Auschwitz, The Cultural Revolution and the Cambodian genocide with secular regimes and ideologies.


For all the problems associated with belief in God, the death of God leads to far more of them.

So, while it is not possible to prove (or disprove) God's existence, what is provable is what happens when people stop believin g in God.



2. Without God, there is no objective meaning to life. We are all merely random creations of natural selection whose existence has no more intrinsic purpose or meaning than that of a pebble equally randomly produced.

3. Life is ultimately a tragic fare if there is no God. We live, we suffer, we die — some horrifically, many prematurely — and there is only oblivion afterward.

5. If there is no God, the kindest and most innocent victims of torture and murder have no better a fate after de ath than do the most cruel torturers and mass murderers. Only if there is a good God do Mother Teresa and Adolf Hitler have different fates.

6. With the death of Judeo-Christian values in the West, many Westerners believe in little. That is why secular Western Europe has been unwilling and therefore unable to confront evil, whether it was Communism during the Cold War or Islamic totalitarians in its midst today.


9. If there is no God, humans and "other" animals are of equal value. Only if one posits that=2 0humans, not animals, are created in the image of God do humans have any greater intrinsic sanctity than baboons. This explains the movement among the secularized elite to equate humans and animals.

11. Without God nothing is holy. This is definitional. Holiness emanates from a belief in the holy. This explains, for example, the far more widespread acceptance of public cursing in secular society than in religious society. To the religious, there is holy speech and profane speech. In much of secular society the very notion of profane speech is mocked.